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We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

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Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#971

Post by cdnthrownawy39 »

const_cast wrote: post #937
cdnthrownawy39 wrote: post #925

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of disagree that it isn't productive. If someone self destructs out of a social life due to consuming an artificial social life, doesn't that also mean that people that want and need human connection won't have to waste their time filtering through someone that won't provide them with what they want?

Sure, maybe, but it's not productive for themselves - it's self-destruction. It's the equivalent of cutting off your legs so you can't enter the race so you don't lose the race. Well... mission accomplished, you won't lose the race. But at what cost? Bonus points if you can believe it's everyone else's fault and none your own. Now you can't lose AND it's not your fault. Great! But you're not even playing.

[dead]

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#972

Post by ninetyninenine »

nuancebydefault wrote: post #943
ninetyninenine wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current system we have are as good as they get? You’re just making this statement out of thin air? Did you not notice a trendline of technological improvement of AI? > Sure, I probably could make something more effective, using non-LLM technologies (given a large enough budget), but… why would I, or anyone else, do that when it'd be obviously harmful, with no benefit? Technology will improve. The likelihood of yo…

I've never been able to get good extrapolations from trendlines. If you do, you must be very rich.

Bro.

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/the-sp-500-index-out-performe...

You'd be a fucking idiot if you bet on zero or negative growth for the SP500 in the next decade. The market is utterly the perfect example of a predictable trendline. The key is that you need to look at it over the long term.

Warren buffet called out every idiot investor because they all did short term bets based on short term gains and he said the way forward was long term investments. Now tell me. What does the long term trendline for the past decade say about machine learning? What does the short term LLM "training wall" say about it? Are you an idiot investor or are you not? Most investors are idiots.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#973

Post by sw030695 »

kaashif wrote: post #752
boh wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who live on the internet assume this is true because they only deal with people who also live on the internet. Just because we're not all documenting everything that we do to a nebulous public doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Much of what happens in the social world isn't articulated or available for scientific study. You might be surprised to know that bars, clubs, gyms, concerts, trivia nights aren't empty. "…

> "In decline" is the sort of state that's can only be articulated in abstract terms. It absolutely is not. It's very concrete and is a real problem. In the UK, for example, there's a well documented trend of pubs and clubs shutting as business declines. And this has real world impacts or causes, the number of people who are single is rising substantially: https://archive.is/kyk2L This isn't rationalizing personal lo…

Pubs and clubs are declining due to a cultural shift amongst the young. Alcohol isn't cool for the younger generations and a larger cohort of young people can be found in the gym and running around than ever before.

If I was an investing man I'd stick all of my money into Garmin, running shoe companies, gyms and the like.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#974

Post by ninetyninenine »

achenet wrote: post #819
ninetyninenine wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Xerox PARC. Bell Labs. Academia. Wikipedia. You must have a rather narrow and useless definition of "progress". No i have a realistic definition of progress in capitalism. You must have a rather narrow brain and are unable to comprehend the difference between a realistic and practical application of "progress" versus an ideal that is unrealistic. Bell labs, Xerox PARC are done. These labs existed because capitalist…

> Now take a look at academia. Where does all that money come from? Taxes. Where do Taxes come from? Business and profit. Academic progress comes from business. Where does the common education system and legal system system underpins the business world come from? Government. Who puts dollar bills into the hands of people and tells them "come next tax season, we're going to ask you for a bunch of dollars at gunpoint,…

>So if you believe all progress comes from business and profit, you believe all progress comes from the government, because business and profit is a side effect of governement.

Your logic is truly out of this world. Just because government is involved with progress DOES not mean it's the origin of all progress. Everything you listed is government aiding and facilitating in progress. Nothing of what you said necessarily means the government is a requirement for progress.

You remember that the american economy existed BEFORE money was minted by the government right? You read history right? So how the heck does your argument fit in the world of common sense? Like your incredible logic is Government makes money, therefore government is responsible for progress.

You realize that "money" aka gold, aka other forms of currency have existed without governments right?

I don't need to read a book to know about the anthropological origins of debt or money. Like clearly either you're an idiot, or you're just treating me like one coming up with completely misguided logic to point out what? To read some book? Please.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#975

Post by ninetyninenine »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #840
achenet wrote: post #819

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now take a look at academia. Where does all that money come from? Taxes. Where do Taxes come from? Business and profit. Academic progress comes from business. Where does the common education system and legal system system underpins the business world come from? Government. Who puts dollar bills into the hands of people and tells them "come next tax season, we're going to ask you for a bunch of dollars at gunpoint,…

Money itself also comes from government: like all institutions, it requires maintenance.

No it doesn't. Money has many times evolved naturally from circumstance. Government controlled money also evolves from circumstance usually in the form of a banking system.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#976

Post by weatherlite »

borski wrote: post #879
weatherlite wrote: post #853

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy got lots of downvotes but I wonder, if we all love each other and think we're all on average pretty much great, how come there's a lot of loneliness? Why is it so hard to create or maintain friendships ? Surely our idea of one another on average isn't ideal otherwise we'd be constantly looking to engage in friendships no?

Fear. People are afraid of rejection, because some experiences are bad. But some experiences being bad doesn’t make all (or even most) experiences bad. It’s the definition of having to “get back on the horse” after falling.

> Fear. People are afraid of rejection, because some experiences are bad. But some experiences being bad doesn’t make all (or even most) experiences bad.

I agree but the fear is based on something, not only on rejection. There are quite a few issues happening at once I think:

1) Relentless economic/status competition. The more unequal the society the more this is pronounced, this can cause a huge burden on a relationship where one side is more successful than the other side. This can cause you to feel Schandefreud when your friend is not doing well which is the opposite of what you're supposed to feel; most people don't want to feel these twisted feelings and might prefer to withdraw from the friendship. Others will "endure" their friends' success and a small minority will be 100% happy for them without any feelings of inadequacy.

2) Our culture of instant gratification - friendships and all relationships are hard work, we don't seem to like doing that anymore.

3) Friendship instability - people move cities, countries or simply change and will look for other people to be friends with. That causes an emotional rollercoster and could cause people to ask whether it's worth it . Many friendships don't survive 10 years.

4) I guess a summation of all previous points is relentless individualism in the West and the death of community, religion and even somewhat family. If some of us can't be botehred to visit our parents more than once or twice a year it's not a shocker we can't be bothered to do the hard work required to maintain personal friendships.

There could be more things going on but I think it's much more complex than simply fear of rejection.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#977

Post by AlecSchueler »

lunar-whitey wrote: post #952
AlecSchueler wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real humans are real. Their flaws are real. Your emotions around them are real and so are the benefits to socialising. Accepting people as the flawed actors they are is a part of becoming a mature adult.

No one here is going to help the parent poster by assuming a superior position and lecturing them. It is totally unproductive. I suspect they have been hearing statements like this their entire life. Everything I am reading here is consistent with the perspective of someone with a difference in ability (probably neurodevelopmental) that has experienced persistent social rejection as a result. People systematically fa…

I like how you made this point by taking a superior position and lecturing us all about it.

The person I responded to seems like a lost cause, my response was more intended to sway other young people who might be reading along.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#978

Post by AlecSchueler »

akoboldfrying wrote: post #864
AlecSchueler wrote: post #828

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The electricity in both things are real, and it's unkind to twist the words of the person you responded to that way. They specifically mentioned emotions, not electricity. An AI will be completely unaffected by anything said to it.

I think it's a legitimate question, because ultimately all brain activity is electrical and chemical signals. To say that some electrical signal objectively is or is not an emotion implies that there is some objective rule for deciding this -- but I'm not aware of any such rule, only longstanding conventions.

No, it completely misses the point. If you say something very upsetting to me it will genuinely affect me and my day and have negative consequences for myself and the people around me, because I will have an emotional reaction. You can't upset an AI because it doesn't have the capacity to be upset, it can only return some words and then continue on as if nothing happened.

I hope that makes sense. The underlying functionality of my emotions don't matter at all, only the impact.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#979

Post by zwnow »

const_cast wrote: post #937
cdnthrownawy39 wrote: post #925

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of disagree that it isn't productive. If someone self destructs out of a social life due to consuming an artificial social life, doesn't that also mean that people that want and need human connection won't have to waste their time filtering through someone that won't provide them with what they want?

Sure, maybe, but it's not productive for themselves - it's self-destruction. It's the equivalent of cutting off your legs so you can't enter the race so you don't lose the race. Well... mission accomplished, you won't lose the race. But at what cost? Bonus points if you can believe it's everyone else's fault and none your own. Now you can't lose AND it's not your fault. Great! But you're not even playing.

Why does everything have to be productive? "Hey live a life you arent comfortable with so you fit better into society! :("

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#980

Post by jncfhnb »

somenameforme wrote: post #969
jncfhnb wrote: post #910

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Income is a terrible metric for identifying a developing country. Japan is clearly developed. Housing in Japan is kept sensible in large part thanks to their land value tax for real estate.

The point of the economic numbers is that what's affordable from a Western perspective is not for a Japanese person. You're talking about a country where 50% of workers earn less than $25,000 per year! A $200k house in the US is generally considered very affordable. In Japan that's 8 years of salary for half the country, and easily a 20+ year mortgage. Their housing prices are being further depressed by the fact that…

shrug. Doesn’t contradict anything I said. Japan is not a developing country.
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