971–980 of 1001 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
But they didn't have a valid warrant for arrest. Therefore him going out the back door was not "escaping arrest".
They did have a valid warrant for arrest, they just didn't have a warrant to search the courtroom but they had a warrant to arrest the guy as soon as he stepped outside.
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Except that the authorities didn't have a valid warrant, signed by a judge, to arrest someone. (It's not a crime to aid illegals if the authorities don't have a valid warrant.)
An administrative warrant is still valid for arrest, it doesn't need to be signed by a judge. If you think it needs to be then laws needs to be changed, but that is how laws are right now.
So the judge is no more "obstructing justice" than if I refuse to open the door to let ICE agents in to arrest someone with an administrative warrant, and then that person leaves out the back door.
ICE should have obtained a judicial warrant, but they didn't. That's their fault.
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I’m very sorry about what happened to your mom. What has happened to her is not fair to her or you. However regarding immigration law, the reality is that this law isn’t designed to distinguish between people who are dangerous and people trying to survive. It effectively lumps millions of hardworking people into the same category as violent offenders, without concern for justice or safety. Trump scapegoats undocument…
Blah blah blah. I don’t care. They shouldn’t break our rules if they want to live here.
Attacking a whole group isn’t going to heal your mom. As a victim of injustice why don’t you consider working for justice yourself? Closing your eyes to the reality of what is happening in this country just perpetuates injustice. It spreads the suffering you’ve experienced to others.
I find it hard to understand your position. I can’t help but wonder if it might be some kind of coping mechanism you have built up to deal with the effect your mom’s injury has had on your lives.
A key point here, which the judge brought up with the ICE agents, is that they only had an "administrative warrant".[1] An “ICE warrant” is not a real warrant. It is not reviewed by a judge or any neutral party to determine if it is based on probable cause. "An immigration officer from ICE or CBP may not enter any nonpublic areas—or areas that are not freely accessible to the public and hence carry a higher expectati…
Another key point is that generally speaking the charge of obstruction of justice requires two ingredients: 1) knowledge of a government proceeding 2) action with intent to interfere with that proceeding It doesn't especially matter in this case whether ICE was entitled to enter the courtroom because she's not being charged for refusing to allow them entry to the room. The allegation is that upon finding out about th…
Just as I'm not obligated to call the police to report something I don't see how I can be obligated to force my guest to use a particular door for the convenience of the police. It isn't my responsibility to actively facilitate their actions.
It would never have occurred to me (and doesn't seem reasonable) that obstruction could involve indirect (relative to the government process) actions.
I could understand "aiding and abetting" if I was actively facilitating the commission of a crime but I don't want to live in a country where mere avoidance is considered a crime. "Arrested for resisting arrest" gets mocked for good reason.
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The claim is that the judge, upon finding out that they were there to make an arrest, deliberately led the man out a back door which would under almost no circumstances be available to his use (the jury door), allowing him to bypass the officers attempting to make the arrest. If true, that's pretty clearly a deliberate attempt to obstruct their efforts. The only question is whether obstructing ICE is classified as th…
> The only question is whether obstructing ICE is classified as the legal offense of obstruction There's other questions tbh. I don't know the answers, but I think it is critical to point out. An important one is "does ICE have the authority to operate in the location they were operating in?" If the answer is no, then Dugan's actions cannot be interpreted as interfering with ICE's official operations. You cannot inte…
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> [Dugan allegedly] escorted the them through a private back door to avoid arrest. According to the complaint [0] on page 11, Flores-Ruiz still ended up in a public hallway and was observed by one of the agents. They just didn't catch him before he was able to use the elevator. INAL but I don't think "Dugan let Flores-Ruiz use a different door to get to the elevator than ICE expected" should be illegal. [0]: https://…
The outcomes are immaterial to the legal question of obstruction, the only factors are knowledge of the warrant and intent to help him escape. If he successfully avoided arrest but it cannot be proven that the judge intended that outcome, then she is not guilty of obstruction. If he got caught anyway but the judge intended to help him escape, that's still obstruction. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/obstruction_of_ju…
The first paragraph only appears to apply to physical evidence. The second paragraph appears to require more than merely assisting someone.
> Whoever corruptly, or by threats or force, or by any threatening letter or communication
The latter two obviously don't apply so that only leaves the former. Did the judge act "corruptly"?
The other law cited in the complaint is USC 18 §1071 [2] and the question would be if leading someone to an alternate pathway constitutes either harboring or concealing the individual. I don't feel like letting someone out my backdoor constitutes "concealing" a person as the term is commonly used. As an example, hiding someone in a closet and then telling the officers that he isn't in the building would obviously qualify.
[0] https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/3d022b74...
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Then they weren't obstructed. They're just shit at their job. If I know you're in a building and haver permission to arrest you, it's not "obstructing arrest" if you use the back door. What if your car's parked out back? To quote the 10 year old who destroyed me in fortnite "Get good."
I could be if you can't enter a store to arrest someone and back door is marked "private employee only". Manager then let's them out the back door despite clear enforced store policy to prohibit random customers from being allowed in that part of the store.
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I'd wager dollars to donuts this is a "You'll beat the rap but you won't beat the ride" intimidation tactic: the FBI knows it doesn't have a case, but they don't need to have a case to handcuff the judge and throw them in jail for a few days. That intimidation and use of force against the judicial branch is the end in itself.
> wager dollars to donuts Donuts at the local grocery store are $7/dozen. If you're somewhere with generally higher prices, this bet might not be as lopsided as it's traditionally meant to be.
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>> An “ICE warrant” is not a real warrant False.
An ICE warrant is for civil offenses. Like operating a non-conforming radio transmitter. If my buddy is in my backyard blasting out Freebird 24x7 on a transmitter that can reach 201 feet instead of the unlicensed maximum of 200 feet and the FCC knocks on my door looking for him and I tell them to go fuck themselves, should I be arrested?
I don't know. Is an FCC warrant like an ICE warrant? If so, then you don't have to open the door. You can probably tell them to fuck themselves, but that's probably not a good idea.
You can't obstruct their investigation. You can't conceal what your neighbor is doing. You can't tell the FCC that your neighbor doesn't have a transmitter, or that it only reaches 200 feet when you know that that it reaches farther than that. Those are crimes, in my admittedly limited understanding of the situation.
An ICE warrant is not a search warrant. ICE did not need a search warrant in this case. They needed a warrant to arrest a named person they had probable cause to believe was in the country illegally. It appears they did in fact have that warrant. It was a real warrant. And if they facts in the ICE criminal complaint are true, this is a textbook case of someone obstructing that arrest.