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U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

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Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#971

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without opining on the correctness of referring to this kind of confiscation from one state by another as stealing: it's an obvious mistake to treat taking money out of their bank accounts as a more serious offense than making war on them, literally taking their lives.

This is way more damaging to the institutions of Europe than the war in Ukraine. Countries usually owe each other money, now everyone will think twice before saving assets in Europe.

[deleted]

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#972

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't poke the hornets nest. Soon you would see fullscale mobilisation in Russia and you have essentially ww3.

It is a bluff putin is continuously repeating. Because he knows western countries are eager to bite. Look: at this moment Ukraine is using western arms to occupy part of Russia. What putin did? Same as before occupation. Strategic bombings of oil refineries - no changes in putin actions. This is actually the only language Russians understand: strong actions to show power.

I disagree with you on all points provided.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#973

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia would never trust US. Russia would never ally itself with US against China. What makes you think they will suddenly turn on their ally China, to side with US (their always-enemy)? Economically, allying with Russia is stupid, they're poor. The only way they are making it through this war economy is the fact that Russian people are patient and are used to bad economy. The average anual salary in Russia is below…

$10K/year is not that bad, you won't die from hunger and can buy all necessary things. Also, it is more than in previous years (cannot believe, but it was somewhere around $1K/year in 2000 when Putin came into power).

I mean in relative terms not bad for putin actually... 10x-ing is the wet dream of many in the silicovska valley.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#974
post #968

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes the above all shows that America thought it was in its strategic interest, that Clinton supported it. That does not eliminate the fact that much of Eastern Europe wanted to join for exactly the reasons I mentioned. And nobody made them do it. To prove that we'd probably need a FOIA request or a large CIA/USAID/NED document leak. Saying "nobody forced them" while the US operated probably the most effective coerci…

To prove that we'd probably need a FOIA request or a large CIA/USAID/NED document leak. Saying "nobody forced them" while the US operated probably the most effective coercive soft power institutions the world has ever seen, by subsidizing NGOs and "pro-democracy movements", strikes me as incredibly naive. You have no idea what you are talking about and are clearly trying to spin a narrative out of nowhere. I, like ma…

>You have no idea what you are talking about and are clearly trying to spin a narrative out of nowhere.

I have no regional experience with the tiny backwater corner of the world known as "the Baltics"....but I absolutely understand how my country exerts influence in numerous larger, more important places, with even more significant risks.....and it's by heavily using the tools that I mentioned. I'm not willing to give our government the benefit of the doubt, given our extensive list of malevolent priors. If you are saying there was overwhelming domestic support for NATO, okay, but I'd consider that an exception, not a norm.

>I don't need an American NGO to convince me that simply hoping we're not the next item on the menu is not a sound national security policy.

Every nation that isn't at least a major regional power (Turkey as an example) is on somebody's menu. Maybe you guys have been punched in the face so many times by your local Great Powers that reaching for anyone else, even from across the ocean, seemed sound....but as we are witnessing now in real-time, you are also finding out that America's benevolence is neither infinite nor eternal.

Re: 1991 South Ossetia War. Why is it ok for the Georgians to secede from the Soviet Union but not ok for the South Ossetians to secede from Georgia? Why is it morally good for the US to arm the Ukrainians, who feel aggrieved, but not moral for Russia to arm the South Ossetians, who feel aggrieved?

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#975

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a challenge to conduct an election during war. Never forget: 1) Zelensky sat quietly while Democrats tried to impeach Trump the first time. Zelensky alone could have put an end to that sham impeachment. 2) Zelensky actively campaign against Donald Trump for the Democrats. 3) One of Zelinsky’s radicalized zealots tried to kill Donald Trump. Then Zelensky reneges on the mineral deal because it doesn’t continue th…

What exactly was a sham about Trump's multiple impeachments?

That people still vote for him.

Either it was a sham or it was a sham lawfare.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#976
post #968

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To prove that we'd probably need a FOIA request or a large CIA/USAID/NED document leak. Saying "nobody forced them" while the US operated probably the most effective coercive soft power institutions the world has ever seen, by subsidizing NGOs and "pro-democracy movements", strikes me as incredibly naive. You have no idea what you are talking about and are clearly trying to spin a narrative out of nowhere. I, like ma…

>You have no idea what you are talking about and are clearly trying to spin a narrative out of nowhere. I have no regional experience with the tiny backwater corner of the world known as "the Baltics"....but I absolutely understand how my country exerts influence in numerous larger, more important places, with even more significant risks.....and it's by heavily using the tools that I mentioned. I'm not willing to giv…

  I have no regional experience with the tiny backwater corner of the world known as "the Baltics"....but I absolutely understand how my country exerts influence in numerous larger, more important places, with even more significant risks.....and it's by heavily using the tools that I mentioned. I'm not willing to give our government the benefit of the doubt, given our extensive list of malevolent priors. If you are saying there was overwhelming domestic support for NATO, okay, but I'd consider that an exception, not a norm.
Yes, I can see that you have no regional experience, and pinning everything on the US is an obvious attempt to fill the gap with what you have. But you're wrong. These attitudes were the norm, not an exception. Hungary, for example, held a referendum in 1997 and 85.33% of voters expressed support for joining NATO. The 1956 Hungarian revolution and its violent suppression by Soviet soldiers, who killed 3000 civilians, did far more to shape the desire to join NATO than anything the US ever did. It is extremely provincial and backwaterish to fall back on US-centric explanations for everything that has happened in Europe.

  Re: 1991 South Ossetia War. Why is it ok for the Georgians to secede from the Soviet Union but not ok for the South Ossetians to secede from Georgia? Why is it morally good for the US to arm the Ukrainians, who feel aggrieved, but not moral for Russia to arm the South Ossetians, who feel aggrieved?
As the USSR collapsed, the Soviet central government employed a strategy of inflaming ethnic divisions to weaken independence movements. Their strategy aimed not to support the separatist groups, but to create instability in Soviet republics and disrupt their ability to form independent states by creating frozen conflicts: ongoing, unresolved issues that would drain the resources and attention of the newly independent states and prevent them from fully consolidating their sovereignty. This strategy saw its widest successes in Transnistria, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, and Nagorno-Karabakh, but attempts that ultimately failed were made in many other places too. We saw exactly the same strategy again in Ukraine, when unmarked Russian forces pretended to be local separatists and declared the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics.

Transnistria, South Ossetia, etc remain internationally unrecognized - even by Russian allies like Belarus - because they represent manufactured conflicts rather than genuine independence movements.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#977

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without opining on the correctness of referring to this kind of confiscation from one state by another as stealing: it's an obvious mistake to treat taking money out of their bank accounts as a more serious offense than making war on them, literally taking their lives.

This is way more damaging to the institutions of Europe than the war in Ukraine. Countries usually owe each other money, now everyone will think twice before saving assets in Europe.

Oh yes - "Risky to invest in Europe, it'll scupper our future plans to break a peace treaty and violate international law by invading one of their countries".

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#978

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly was a sham about Trump's multiple impeachments?

That people still vote for him. Either it was a sham or it was a sham lawfare.

This is a false dichotomy. There is a third option: that the impeachments were right, but the American electorate didn't care.
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