Earlier quoted context omitted.
You've never worked in a startup have you? Or any business for that matter. You have to promise something first, then build it.
No joke, is this actually true? Do startups really do this? I thought the capability is built or nearly built or at least in testing already with reasonable or amazing results, THEN they go to market? Do startups go to other startups, fortune 500 companies and public companies to make false promises with or without due diligence and sign deals with the knowledge that the team and engineers know the product doesn't ha…
Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson
971–980 of 986 posts
Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson
#972Earlier quoted context omitted.
These are the very arguments I get all the time. 1) I want to invalidate caches, I want to know that these systems work. I want to know that my software properly handles this situation. 2) if I have lazy clients. I want to know. And I want to motivate them on updating sooner or figure out how to force update them. I don’t want to not update because some people are slow. I want the norm to be it is updating, so when t…
I think it often makes sense to do full releases frequently, but not continuously. For example, Chrome is on an approximately four week schedule, which makes sense for them. Other projects have faster cadences. There is a point of diminishing returns, though, and you seem to be ignoring the downsides.
Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson
#973Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can explain these problems with simple business metrics that technologists like to ignore. Right before the recent Twitter acquisition, the various bits of info that came to the limelight included the "minor detail" that they had more than doubled their headcount and associated expenses, but had not doubled either their revenue or profits. Technology complexity went up, the business went backwards. Thousands of p…
Yeah, try dealing with many frontends with mixed HTTP and HTTPS, it's a nightmare and won't always work. Additionally, you want security on content delivery for revenue protection reasons. The way you've massively over simplified the BSD work shows that you perhaps didn't understand what they did and why hardware offload is a good thing? Subtitles are also complicated because you have to deal with different media pla…
I read and understood their entire technical whitepaper. I get the what, I'm just saying that the why might not make as much sense as you might assume.
> +40 different players you deal with
They own the clients. They wrote the apps themselves. This is Netflix code reading data from Netflix servers. Even if there are third-party clients (wat!?), that doesn't explain why none of Netflix's home-grown clients support more than 5 subtitle languages.
> Getting those players, which you may not own, to recognise multiple sub tracks can be a PITA.
This is a core part of the service, which everyone else has figured out. Apple TV for example has dozens of subtitle languages.[1]
With all due respect: Read what you just wrote. You're saying that an organisation that has the engineering prowess to stream at 200 Gbps per edge box and also handles terabytes of diagnostic log ingestion per hour can't somehow engineer the distribution of 40 KB text files!?
I can't even begin to outline the myriad ways in which these excuses are patent nonsense.
These are children playing with the fun toys, totally ignoring like... 1/3rd of the viewing experience. As far as the users are concerned, there's nothing else of consequence other than the video, audio, and text that they see on the screen.
"Nah, don't worry about the last one, that only affects non-English speakers or the deaf, we only care about DEI for internal hires, not customers."
[1] Just to clarify: I'm asking for there to be an option to select one language at a time from all available languages, not showing multiple languages at once, which is a tiny bit harder. But... apparently not that hard, because I have two different free, open-source video players on my PC that can do this so I can have my spouse get "full" subtitles in a foreign language while I see the "auto" English subtitles pop up in a different colour when appropriate. With Netflix I have to keep toggling between her language and my language every time some foreign non-English thing is said. Netflix is worth $362B, apparently, but hasn't figured out something put together by poor Eastern European hobbyists in their spare time.
Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson
#974Cable TV (or even OTA antenna in the right service area) is simply a superior live product compared to anything streaming. The Masters app is the only thing that comes close imo. Cable TV + DVR + high speed internet for torrenting is still an unmatched entertainment setup. Streaming landscape is a mess. It's too bad the cable companies abused their position and lost any market goodwill. Copper connection direct to ev…
The interesting thing is that a lot of TV infrastructure is now running over IP networks. If I were to order a TV connection for my home I'd get an IPTV box to connect to my broadband router via Ethernet, and it'd simply tell the upstream router to send a copy of a multicast stream my way. Reliable and redundant multicast streaming is pretty much a solved problem, but it does require everyone along the way to partici…
So far, no one seems particularly motivated.
Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson
#975Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, try dealing with many frontends with mixed HTTP and HTTPS, it's a nightmare and won't always work. Additionally, you want security on content delivery for revenue protection reasons. The way you've massively over simplified the BSD work shows that you perhaps didn't understand what they did and why hardware offload is a good thing? Subtitles are also complicated because you have to deal with different media pla…
> you perhaps didn't understand what they did I read and understood their entire technical whitepaper. I get the what , I'm just saying that the why might not make as much sense as you might assume. > +40 different players you deal with They own the clients. They wrote the apps themselves . This is Netflix code reading data from Netflix servers. Even if there are third-party clients (wat!?), that doesn't explain why…
The browser gives you a certain level of control on computers, although you have to deal with the oddities of Safari, but when you go to smart TVs it's the wild west. Netflix does provide their tested framework to TV vendors but it's still not easy, because media playback often requires hardware acceleration, but the rendering framework isn't standard.
Developing for set-top boxes, multiple generations of phones, and smart TVs comes with all sorts of oddities. You think it's easy because you haven't done it.
Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson
#976Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t pay my ISP each month to be part of a streaming sites infrastructure. I pay the streaming site each month to use theirs.
If you use Comcast's modem/wifi router, you are part of their service infrastructure. Xfinity WiFi Home Hotspot
Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson
#977Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is live a lot harder? Aside from latency (which isn't much of a problem unless you are competing with TV or some other distribution system), it seems easier than on-demand, since you send the same data to everyone and don't need to handle having a potentially huge library in all datacenters (you have to distribute the data, but that's just like having an extra few users per server). My guess is that the problem w…
On demand is easier precisely because having a huge library in all data centers is relatively cheap. In actuality you just have a cache, collocated ISPs that pulls from your origin servers. Likely you have users all watching different things so you can easily avoid hot spots by sharding on the content type. Once the in demand content is in the cache its' relatively easy to serve. Live content is harder because it can…
isn't it a tree of cache servers? as origin sends the frames they're cached.
and as load grows the tree has to grow too, and when it cannot resorting to degrading bitrate, and ultimately to load shedding to keep the viewers happy?
and it seems Netflix opted to forego the last one to avoid a the bad PR of an error message of "we are over capacity" and instead went with actually let it burn, no?
Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson
#978Every time a big company screws up, there are two highly informed sets of people who are guaranteed to be lurking, but rarely post, in a thread like this: 1) those directly involved with the incident, or employees of the same company. They have too much to lose by circumventing the PR machine. 2) people at similar companies who operate similar systems with similar scale and risks. Those people know how hard this is a…
The only time I worked on a project that had a live television launch, it absolutely tipped over within like 2 minutes, and people on HN and Reddit were making fun of it. And I know how hard everyone worked, and how competent they were, so I sympathize with the people in these cases. While the internet was teeing off with easy jokes, engineers were swarming on a problem that was just not resolving, PMs were pacing up…
Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson
#979Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is no one "Amazon" here, there are at least 3: * Twitch: Essentially invented live streaming. Fantastic. * Amazon Interactive Video Service [0]: Essentially "Twitch As A Service", built by Twitch engineers. Fantastic. * Prime Video. Same exact situation as Netflix: original expertise is all in static content. Lots of growing pains with live video and poor reports. But they've figured it out: now there are regul…
IVS does not scale past 1080p: https://ivs.rocks/
pisses me off.
physical media for the win, tho.
Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson
#980Earlier quoted context omitted.
On demand is easier precisely because having a huge library in all data centers is relatively cheap. In actuality you just have a cache, collocated ISPs that pulls from your origin servers. Likely you have users all watching different things so you can easily avoid hot spots by sharding on the content type. Once the in demand content is in the cache its' relatively easy to serve. Live content is harder because it can…
... what do you mean it cannot be cached? isn't it a tree of cache servers? as origin sends the frames they're cached. and as load grows the tree has to grow too, and when it cannot resorting to degrading bitrate, and ultimately to load shedding to keep the viewers happy? and it seems Netflix opted to forego the last one to avoid a the bad PR of an error message of "we are over capacity" and instead went with actuall…
When I mean "cached", it means that the PoP server can serve content without contacting the origin server. (The PoP can't serve content it does not have).
>and it seems Netflix opted to forego the last one to avoid a the bad PR of an error message of "we are over capacity" and instead went with actually let it burn, no?
Anything other than 100% uptime is bad PR for Netflix.