Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction • Hacker News Board

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#971

Post by flappyeagle » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 5:08 PM UTC

sangnoir wrote: post #576

flappyeagle wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go start a company already — you’re on YC forums

I have started a company[1], but that's neither here nor there. I vehemently disagree with your insinuation that I couldn't challenge leadership culture had I not. Founding a company doesn't make one infallible or irreplaceable. Though to be fair, it doesn't feel that way when it's your company though! 1. I will note that this is an incredibly low bar.

You want to be the boss. Start a company. You want someone else to control your employment, work for someone else. It’s simple.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#972

Post by baudpunk » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 5:21 PM UTC

protonprivacy wrote: post #557

baudpunk wrote: post #327

Kind of surprising to me, because I think I've tried every large competitor in the space, and have found there to be a gulf between the Dropbox UX and everyone else. I'm more than willing to pay their premium price. I was hoping Proton Drive would compete, but I felt like I was beta testing an inferior product. I guess Wu Tang was right.

Can you share more about your experience, which platform you were using and what features you were looking for so that we can share it with the team?

Proton Drive through Proton Unlimited. I have my e-mail setup through Proton already, so the plan was going to be to consolidate, and use Proton for cloud storage as well. I have since downgraded back to Mail Plus. The reason being a pretty bad experience with Drive.

I honestly don't remember the fine-grained details, sorry, but it had something to do with waking up one morning to my remaining storage being consumed by every file in Drive being duplicated, with a title "(overwritten 21h4m)" or something like that appended to each one.

I can't remember what caused it, but what I do remember is that there was no way to remediate it through the Drive app itself. Meaning, if I wanted to return my drive back to its original state, I would be burning my own time to write the script to do it, or I would be burning my own time to research some other solution. I couldn't believe the feature was shipped in that state.

In my opinion, if there exists a feature that leads to all of my files being duplicated, then it shouldn't be released unless there has been thorough testing against that feature's ability to remediate the fubarred status that it has enacted to "protect" my files. In this case, I think the feature was version history.

So the three conclusions I could come to were that there was little to no testing, inexperienced engineers, or a project manager that isn't managing the project particularly well. In any case, I don't want to feel like I'm beta testing features with my most important files, so I went back to Dropbox and its more mature app. Haven't looked back since.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#973

Post by baudpunk » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 5:22 PM UTC

leoapagano wrote: post #545

baudpunk wrote: post #327

Kind of surprising to me, because I think I've tried every large competitor in the space, and have found there to be a gulf between the Dropbox UX and everyone else. I'm more than willing to pay their premium price. I was hoping Proton Drive would compete, but I felt like I was beta testing an inferior product. I guess Wu Tang was right.

Pardon—what does Wu Tang have to do with Dropbox?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBwAxmrE194

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#974

Post by mvdtnz » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 5:38 PM UTC

andruby wrote: post #871

mvdtnz wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a lot of people this isn't possible. You won't find a liveable home in my country for under 600k.

I'm curious what country that is. Monaco? How are housing prices in the neighbouring countries?

New Zealand.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#975

Post by mattmaroon » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 5:42 PM UTC

eob wrote: post #115

malfist wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Resignation. If they made a big enough blunder to need to lay off 20% of their staff, they're not capable of leading the company. Why do we think they'd do any better next time if there are no consequences to their poor leadership?

Have you ever managed a complex, dynamic, changing system and found that the optimal size based on current conditions was 20% less than it was at some prior time? I can think of all sorts examples.

The answer to your question is definitely no. Nobody who has ever ran a business for long would think that every layoff is due to CEO incompetence.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#976

Post by gruez » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 6:23 PM UTC

johnnyanmac wrote: post #875

ramblerman wrote: post #869

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can still sell your house or car. The first potentially for more money. The restaurants and broadway shows are gone. I’m all for spending on experiences btw. But you have it backwards financially.

Car market is crazy these past few years, but the common wisdom is "your car loses worth the moment it leaves the lot". and it is probably still an essential so you can ensure cash flow. It's more expensive making a bad bet with a beater and spending hundreds keeping it running. And selling your house is a last resort. rent is still more than mortgageso you're losing both asset and liquid wealth with that move just t…

>And selling your house is a last resort. rent is still more than mortgageso you're losing both asset and liquid wealth with that move just to buy some time. You're better off taking out a second mortgage if needed than selling off entirely.

...not to mention that if you're losing your job and can't find a new one readily, chances are you're in an economic calamity and you'll be selling near the bottom.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#977

Post by gruez » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 6:49 PM UTC

csomar wrote: post #849

ironmagma wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It kind of ignores the core asymmetry of capitalism, that those with the capital are the ones with the power. Nobody can do a background check on a company to see who they laid off or fired before they work there.

You can do a background check. That’s not where the asymmetry is, though. The pandemic checks have showed that the asymmetry can be flipped but then almost everyone working low-tier (flipping burgers) will quit his work. The Fed has then decided to re-enslave these people. Someone gotta take the garbage.

>The Fed has then decided to re-enslave these people. Someone gotta take the garbage.

What are you talking about? real (ie. inflation adjusted) wages have gone up more for the lowest quartile of americans[1]. Is paying people more to get them to work "re-enslavement" now?

[1] https://www.atlantafed.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker, click the "wage level" button

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#978

Post by Quothling » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 6:51 PM UTC

carabiner wrote: post #818

Quothling wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a CEO takes full responsibility for these things it doesn't mean that they submit themselves to the punishment that internet users might want. It's the CEO telling their impacted employees that, no matter how well you did as an employee, you would still have been impacted. It's the CEO showing you empathy for the hurt they cause you for having failed to steer the company in a viable direction. These messages are…

In what other realm of life does "taking full responsibility" absolve you from any consequences? It "shows empathy," what? Suspect: "I murdered someone and take full responsibility, and I empathize with the victim's next of kin," Judge: "Thank you for your candor all is forgiven, you're off scot free" If a CEO did not take full responsibility, what would be different?

> In what other realm of life does "taking full responsibility" absolve you from any consequences?

Very early in my career I accidentally deleted every IP phone in the municipality where I was working. It was because they didn't have a test setup and the documentation didn't the SysAdmin gave me weren't updated. It was still my fault though and the first thing I did was to tell the IT manager thinking I'd get in trouble. I didn't. He told me he wasn't happy that I had deleted all the phones, but that it was good that I had come to him directly and taken responsibility.

Because when you take responsibility in the adult world, it means that you can work from there. As such it's both ridiculous and disingenuous when you compare a perfectly normal consequences of doing business with committing a crime. It's also a little weird to do so on HN considering this is a VC site.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#979

Post by gruez » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 6:57 PM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #612

tschellenbach wrote: post #551

The same forces that enable high tech salaries, also make layoffs more likely. - The market for talent is competitive. So companies bid up to the absolute max they can - The market for managers is also competitive. Creating dynamics that lead to larger teams and raises for team members - Companies allow things like remote work, which is a perk, but also has a lot of abuse in terms of how much work gets done The end r…

> Companies allow things like remote work, which is a perk, but also has a lot of abuse in terms of how much work gets done Do you have any evidence of this? There are unfounded claims of “productivity metrics” but I have never actually seen one. E: I realize this is a poor choice of words after saying productivity metrics don’t exist. What I mean is my tasks are easier to complete in a WFH environment than they are…

>Do you have any evidence of this? There are unfounded claims of “productivity metrics” but I have never actually seen one.

see: https://archive.is/CKGbV

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#980

Post by gruez » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 7:01 PM UTC

sosodev wrote: post #755

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obviously the win is not laying people off. All you are arguing for is that Dropbox should never have hired these people in the first place. Why is that better? At least these people got some years of high pay, experience, networking relationships, etc. Obviously it's disruptive, and it could be a big net negative for people who maybe jumped ship from more stable jobs only to be quickly laid off, but that's not the…

I suppose it's largely a matter of perspective but I would argue that fewer more stable jobs would likely be better for both the companies and employees. Also, you're missing another obvious argument. Most tech companies that are doing layoffs could afford to keep their employees. Dropbox hasn't done 3 rounds of layoffs because they're on the verge of bankruptcy but rather they're just following the trend and pleasin…

>I suppose it's largely a matter of perspective but I would argue that fewer more stable jobs would likely be better for both the companies and employees.

How do you expect this to work? Companies hire because they think the extra man-hours is going to give them a competitive advantage. Companies agreeing not to compete each other seems suspiciously like a cartel.