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10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

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Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#971

Post by pelagicAustral »

aconsult1 wrote: post #755
giancarlostoro wrote: post #6

I wonder what a sensible way forward for Cubans is, and their government. What would it take for the US to lift sanctions (I assume a radical shift within Cuba's government), and for Cuba itself (as a whole) to restructure their government in a way that would benefit them and everyone. Cuba would be a great travel destination. Their cigars aren't as on par anymore as far as I know, but there's potential there, Nicara…

I've been smoking cigars for the past 15 years. I was lucky enough to have smoked only cuban cigars (which are legal where I'm from), so I know them very well. Nicaragua and Dominican Republic are garbage compared to Cubans, still to this day. Several times while in the US (where I've lived in the past few years) I tried to smoke non-cuban cigars. Not once I found something that was remotely close to the worse cuban…

Macanudos are not bad at all, pretty unique flavor too... But yeah, Cubans are unbeatable... I'm somewhat addicted to Romeo y Julieta Cedros Deluxe n3

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#972

Post by xg15 »

SaintSeiya wrote: post #910

I'm one of them, the Cuban dictatorship has gotten worse over years and more brutal, the cuban government is the enemy of its own people and asphyxiates any piece of freedom we have there. Is not the U.S or any other country but pure malice of the government that do not want to give up the power and sacrifices a whole country if necessary to remain there. The amount of ignorance (bought the dictatorship propaganda) a…

> the Cuban dictatorship has gotten worse over years and more brutal, the cuban government is the enemy of its own people and asphyxiates any piece of freedom we have there.

As someone who thinks of himself as left and is aware of the left's fondness of cuba, could you give some examples?

(specifically, things that are the result of government policies, not the embargo)

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#973

Post by throwawayq3423 »

thiagoharry wrote: post #945
kgwgk wrote: post #863

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By your comment, I assume that you don't see a difference between "not having a commercial relationship with a country" and "invading and annexing a country".

Cuba was being invaded at that time (Bay of Pigs Invasion, later there was also discussion about a false flag attack to kill people, blame Cuba and then justify an invasion). From the point of view of Cuba, the Russian missiles were a way to ensure that other invasions would not happen again. If the missile crises were not solved, then the conflict would escalate to a war, but fortunately, it did not happen.

You have shifted to the justification for the threat, which is not what we are talking about.

Castro not only accepted the missiles, he demanded they be used: https://www.nytimes.com/1992/10/23/opinion/castro-wanted-a-n...

If you are arguing this is normal or in some way explainable, I don't know what to tell you. There is ample reason why relations aren't good and you cannot exclusively blame others (the US) for it.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#974

Post by metatranca »

xg15 wrote: post #972
SaintSeiya wrote: post #910

I'm one of them, the Cuban dictatorship has gotten worse over years and more brutal, the cuban government is the enemy of its own people and asphyxiates any piece of freedom we have there. Is not the U.S or any other country but pure malice of the government that do not want to give up the power and sacrifices a whole country if necessary to remain there. The amount of ignorance (bought the dictatorship propaganda) a…

> the Cuban dictatorship has gotten worse over years and more brutal, the cuban government is the enemy of its own people and asphyxiates any piece of freedom we have there. As someone who thinks of himself as left and is aware of the left's fondness of cuba, could you give some examples? (specifically, things that are the result of government policies, not the embargo)

- You can get 5 years in prison just for going to the street with a sign[1] - Cuba sends doctors to other countries, claiming to be a humanitarian nation. However, they violate the human rights of the doctors they send without any mercy [2]. Fun fact: I have a family member who worked as a Cuban doctor in Africa. Despite earning only $200 while the government kept the rest, this person decided not to return. As punishment for ending the exploitation, they were not allowed to visit their family for more than 10 years. On July 11, 2021, people took to the streets demanding change. The result? Brutal repression.[3]

[1] https://havanatimes.org/features/luis-robles-the-cuban-youth...

[2] https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/07/23/cuba-repressive-rules-do...

[3] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/07/five-things-y...

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#975

Post by thatfrenchguy »

rgbrenner wrote: post #415
gottorf wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not concerned about the crime You may not be concerned about the crime, but many voters are. The author of the article you linked to also exhorts the Somali immigrant community to not engage in crime. > because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency until the 2nd and 3rd generation is able to make it into established society. History and data from various European nations suggest that some immigrant groups…

European nations suggest that some immigrant groups aren't able to integrate with the host society after multiple generations You as an American can move to France, and you'll never be considered French. Doesn't matter if you speak french every day for the rest of your life with the most perfect French accent the world has ever heard. And if you and your American wife have kids in France after living in France for 20…

> And if you and your American wife have kids in France after living in France for 20 years, your kid isn't French either

This is so untrue it's almost ridiculous

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#976

Post by pvaldes »

sensanaty wrote: post #356
vundercind wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bunch of Floridians who are, or are descended from, folks who had their land and businesses seized during the revolution are holding grudges and won’t let go of them until they’re given their stuff back or a ton of money, which, this far on, isn’t happening. Florida is important in Presidential elections. US elections are structured such that dumb stuff like a relatively small—but loud—and also hopeless interest in…

Where does this plantation-owner story come from? How many plantation owners do you think existed? And that still doesn't explain the continual drain happening, to this day, as is evidenced by this very article we're commenting on. What, are these 10% also filthy capitalists somehow? As a Serb whose parents fled an eerily similar situation to Cuba's way back when for greener pastures to the literal other side of the…

> that still doesn't explain the continual drain happening, to this day,

Are we sure and can be trust that this numbers are really correct?

Alternative hypothese: Maybe a part of this people "left the country" in 2022 by covid 19 and statistics were masked to avoid public embarrassment. I would not bet against it.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#977

Post by pyuser583 »

pembrook wrote: post #948
pyuser583 wrote: post #894

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve known some very recent Cuban immigrants. They have a lot in common with economic migrants. Plenty of folks get started working for the state industry or university. Then they hop on a plane to America via Canada and claim citizenship. I’m confident there are still traditional political refugees, but they coexist with “company men” wanting more pay.

I mean, sure, you can rephrase "fleeing a communist dictatorship" as "company men wanting more pay." But it dramatically understates the issue. Moving from Madrid to Amsterdam to get a higher salary is not what we're talking about here. I don't think someone from Madrid would start weeping at the sight of a Dutch grocery store. When Spain talks about brain drain, they're worried about 1-2% of their population leaving…

I was about to share some of the traits of Cubans I know that serve as strong counter examples.

Then I realized this is all public, and Cuban intelligence services spy on the diaspora.

Censorship by proxy sucks.

I’ve run into this before with Chinese and other nationalities. I don’t know what’s safe to say, and what could get someone in trouble. So the ethical thing is to say nothing, unless it’s really important.

It sucks that foreign powers can censor a conversation like this, but they can.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#978

Post by kjkjadksj »

blackhawkC17 wrote: post #716
kjkjadksj wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The little man is told he has all the control but really he is along for the ride. The big man plots the course and convinces the little man their interests are shared when they may not be.

This is cynical thinking that causes corruption and incompetence to thrive. People have a say in their government but often refuse to use it for good. That's how bad leaders get into power. Many countries continually elect smart and competent leaders and become prosperous, but some people have somehow convinced themselves that they have no say in politics, meaning they don't care when their system rots with horrible…

All you have is a choice between an A or a B that was put in front of you by the party establishment. It’s no real choice.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#979

Post by [deleted] »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #600
carom wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building a class of undocumented workers who are outside the normal legal system is simply a gift to corporations. I am staunchly against illegal immigration while being very pro legal immigration. If we need workers, bring them in legally instead of allowing them to exist in a legal grey area as exploitable labor.

You can have protections for illegal immigrants that prevent a lot of abuse. California has some good laws about this.

[deleted]

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#980

Post by rangestransform »

dakiol wrote: post #247
wkat4242 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the US still have sanctions on them anyway? The missile crisis was 50 years ago. It's time to forgive.

Why did the US drop 2 nuclear bombs on Japan? Why the US is keeping Israel as their toy? Why the US entered the Vietnam war (hint: no, not to avoid the spread of communism). US is the bad boy of this planet, just because they can.

All that I have to say about this is that it’s a shame that the people of the US and western “imperialist” world do not reap more benefits from this
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