Panic at the Job Market • Hacker News Board

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#971

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 19, 2024, 5:23 PM UTC

synicalx wrote: post #959

voiceblue wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Xoogler, I have to say Google isn’t what it once was. You pay for your high salary with the fact that the one thing you can be sure most people you work with care about is how much money they extract out of Google and how they could get more. Taking care of toddlers is ostensibly a better use of the one life you get.

> You pay for your high salary with the fact that the one thing you can be sure most people you work with care about is how much money they extract out of Google and how they could get more. That's every job though, right? I only work because my employer pays me and either them or someone else will probably pay me more in the future. I'm not here because I just LOVE writing code for someone else, I'm here because I l…

[deleted]

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#972

Post by throw4023042q0 » Fri, Jul 19, 2024, 5:23 PM UTC

atoav wrote: post #833

bmitc wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideration your particular profile or the contributions you can make. This is really key. I have applied for jobs before, and then get questions like: "what's your experience with C++ or advanced graph algorithms?". Only that, none of that shows up in my profile or resume. But they act surprised and completely shrug off how a decade of software and other relev…

Having experience from both the side of applying for jobs and running (some) job interviews I have to say that the delusions some candidates have shown have really surprised me. When I read comments online about application processes I wonder what our most delusional candidates might say about our extremely fair, one hour max interview process.. What I mean by delusional is that many candidates seem to not put in the…

this is very solid advice - I completely agree with you

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#973

Post by michaelbrave » Fri, Jul 19, 2024, 5:29 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #578

melbourne_mat wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my country, last year it was definitely a candidate's market: I had recruiters reaching out all the time and I got the first job I applied for. This month I've been applying for jobs and not getting interviews. From the conversations I've had it seems recruiters want someone who has an exact skill match for the job. They don't care what else you have done or how many years you have under your belt it's gotta be th…

If the internet is to be believed the average software engineer changes jobs every couple of years. If that's true it makes some sense for a company to want to only hire people whose skills exactly match the specific thing they are hiring them to work on. If they only think the new hire is not going to be around long term why put resources into teaching them new skills?

that's a chicken and egg problem. People change jobs frequently mostly due to two reasons: 1. higher pay 2. to get away from bad management or a bad work environment (same thing really)

If it's the kind of place that doesn't help train new skills, that falls under "bad management". Employees could collectively try to be the better person first in fixing this, but most modern history would show that most employers if given an inch will take a mile, and will generally pay the least amount possible, expect one-sided loyalty, and overall get away with everything they can until either regulation or market forces force them to change.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#974

Post by openmajestic » Fri, Jul 19, 2024, 5:37 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #969

openmajestic wrote: post #763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a candidate, I'm finding the job market extremely hot, specifically early stage companies in and around AI. Just wanted to put that out there for anyone who might find the info useful - I was worried after hearing apocalyptic things before I started interviewing.

In Silicon Valley, I assume?

Yeah

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#975

Post by throw4023042q0 » Fri, Jul 19, 2024, 6:59 PM UTC

darby_nine wrote: post #635

twodave wrote: post #624

In my area at least, hiring isn’t slowing so much, but the quality of the average candidate has cratered in the last 5-10 years. My opinion personally on this is that if you can’t find a job building software, you are suffering from some combination of these factors: * Titles be damned, you aren’t actually a very talented engineer. Maybe this isn’t the right job for you. * You’re coming off as a jerk. Ask your friend…

What signals do you look for in a quality hire?

I've co-interviewed about ~15 people or so with the hiring manager and a guy from HR.

We're looking for people that

1. match the requirements at least somewhat. 2. we can get excited about software and technology. 3. can communicate clearly about software.

A good candidate has preferences in technologies and software. Bad candidates don't give a shit or can't mention languages or frameworks when asked.

We ask questions about soft skills too: Have you ever been in a conflict at work, if so how did you approach it. If not, have you had to act "professionally" in other situations?

Good candidates can always tell a story about some conflict where they talked it out with a colleague or a boss, or give some other lame story where they "learned something". Bad candidates can't say shit. The answers to such questions can reveal some true assholes that can easily be filtered.

Finally we ask why you want this job. Why this company? Good candidates have some bullshit story or can tell something they actually find fascinating about our products. Bad candidates tell you that they don't actually care much where they work, it's just for the money etc. Even whey you give them hints and clues etc., the bad candidates are usually just an obvious bad fit for the role.

Shitty applications get filtered in bunches. Good candidates write applications that read as if written for the job posting. Bad applications read as if written by ChatGPT or plain ol' copy/pasta.

my 2 cents

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#976

Post by kkukshtel » Fri, Jul 19, 2024, 7:48 PM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #477

Aurornis wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideration your particular profile or the contributions you can make. I’ve done some mentoring of CS grads for the past few years. We some times get people with unreasonable interview demands, like companies asking them to make an entire app or website for the interview process. We advise them to decline the really excessive ones. However, it’s rare to see tha…

I entered the workforce 25 years ago and interviews were less than an hour many times hired by the time you made it home. Somewhere in the last 5 years someone thought I don't want to be on the hook for a bad hire and I will not get in trouble for not hiring so unless someone else recommended a person don't hire until it's not your decision. Get as many people in the loop as possible and make sure they meet with ever…

> A bad hire might cost you 3 months salary 30,000

I think this sounds "correct" at first glance but really neglects the fact that there is onboarding and other team dynamics at play. Maybe if you are a giant org and can deal with churn it's okay, but if you're a "small" company, new hires are a drain on everyone's time and emotional resources. You're going to lose that persons salary sure, but also what's the dollar equivalent for how much time others spend onboarding? Probably 2-3x that? And then if you keep hiring and firing people you are going to burn out your team of people that liked being at your job but now hate that you have so much churn and they are tired of onboarding people that are going to quit or be fired in a few months.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#977

Post by bendigedig » Fri, Jul 19, 2024, 8:49 PM UTC

TechDebtDevin wrote: post #603

bendigedig wrote: post #150

I think it might be time to consider diversifying our skills to cover non-tech areas of employment. I know I certainly am.

Someone very senior told me last year that it was about to be a period where the wheat from the chaff would be separated in engineering. He was spot on. Which will you be :)

I will be fed up of the bullshit.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#978

Post by sharpshadow » Fri, Jul 19, 2024, 11:22 PM UTC

Will Trump, if he gets elected, make a change to the current economy?

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#979

Post by jen729w » Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 2:10 AM UTC

johnnyanmac wrote: post #949

jen729w wrote: post #749

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a lifetime contractor, I felt this all the time. So I spoke to the boss of one of the recruitment agencies and said, hey. Isn’t this a job I’d be good at? Recruiting? Because I actually know what the hell I’m on about? And he said, sure, and I’d hire you! But you’d be bored to death within a week because every day is exactly the same.

The older I get, the less I understand the "you'd be bored" excuse for not hiring someone. Is that boss really jumping out of bed every morning excited to talk to more candidates of varying quality and moving them into other, mostly boring, companies. And have boring meetings about what metrics to hit? Restraint and overcoming boredom is one of the basic essences of growing up. You'd think management would understand…

I just think he knew that I wouldn’t last.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#980

Post by dennis_jeeves2 » Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 2:26 AM UTC

koliber wrote: post #728

masterj wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems the candidates mostly have experience with loading data from one data source, doing some transformation with no regard for performance, calling APIs, and storing data into another data source. You may not like it, but for the vast majority of programming jobs globally, that is pretty much the whole job.

You are correct. There is a need for that kind of work. I wish there was a way to differentiate these different kinds of develops. Perhaps “integrations developer” vs “software engineer.”

Let me add a note for for you - the onus is on you find if someone can learn the task. That is what is a great interviewer does.

As masterj pointed out, a really large portion of jobs ( more than three forth) out there won't be nearly anywhere near the complexity of the task you mentioned.