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House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

nytimes.com

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Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#971

Post by dang »

angryasian wrote: post #964
dang wrote: post #921

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've been breaking the site guidelines a lot lately. Can you please not? I recognize that you're representing a minority point of view and I know how frustrating that can be (believe me, I know). But if you keep breaking the site guidelines, we can't suspend moderation because of that. Also, it's not in your interest to do this because it makes your comments less persuasive and indeed gives people an easy reason to…

explain to me how this isn't all xenophobic ? If any of this was real or legit all users would be clamoring for data privacy laws, not a forced sale of some fake boogey man bs. If you're a mod then please why are you allowing for this. Half this xenophobic speach and anti chinese rhetoric is worse than calling it out.

(I'm a mod, yes.) I'm not defending anyone else's bad comments. I'm saying we need you to follow the rules, regardless of how bad other comments are or you feel they are. The same goes for everyone.

I've put in countless hours, over the years, trying to do just what you're demanding here. That's why I gave you that last link to look at. We've learned the hard way that there are limits to what moderators can do about this, unfortunately—and when you post comments that are egregiously breaking the site guidelines, you make this problem harder.

Just to be clear, I don't want you to stop posting! I'm saying we need you to make your substantive points thoughtfully, in keeping with the HN guidelines. I realize how hard that is when feeling the pressure of being outnumbered by an ignorant majority. But if you post things like "you sound as ridiculous as the politicians", "jfc the absolute garbage rhetoric", and so on, you make it impossible for the mods to do much about the comments on the other side—people will simply point to your posts and say "but it's ok for them to break the rules?"

We cut people slack for being under the pressure of holding a minority view in an argument, but there's a limit to how far we can take that, and your comments are unfortunately beyond that limit. That's why I responded to you, in the hope of persuading you to understand this dynamic. I have a lot of sympathy for your position—not because I agree or disagree about the underlying topic, but because I know what it feels like to be outnumbered on the internet.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#972

Post by dang »

angryasian wrote: post #965
dang wrote: post #921

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've been breaking the site guidelines a lot lately. Can you please not? I recognize that you're representing a minority point of view and I know how frustrating that can be (believe me, I know). But if you keep breaking the site guidelines, we can't suspend moderation because of that. Also, it's not in your interest to do this because it makes your comments less persuasive and indeed gives people an easy reason to…

I remember when HN was actually intelligent conversation without the political nonsense. you should be ashamed

This perception has been around almost as long as HN itself has: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#973

Post by [deleted] »

dang wrote: post #971
angryasian wrote: post #964

Earlier quoted context omitted.

explain to me how this isn't all xenophobic ? If any of this was real or legit all users would be clamoring for data privacy laws, not a forced sale of some fake boogey man bs. If you're a mod then please why are you allowing for this. Half this xenophobic speach and anti chinese rhetoric is worse than calling it out.

(I'm a mod, yes.) I'm not defending anyone else's bad comments. I'm saying we need you to follow the rules, regardless of how bad other comments are or you feel they are. The same goes for everyone. I've put in countless hours, over the years, trying to do just what you're demanding here. That's why I gave you that last link to look at. We've learned the hard way that there are limits to what moderators can do about…

[deleted]

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#974

Post by hughesjj »

throwuwu wrote: post #767
victorbjorklund wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if EU forced american companies to sell off their stuff to european companies? It isnt that easy.

If they passed a law requiring US companies operating in Europe to divest their ownership in those subsidiaries or be banned from operating there then that would be their right as a government. Isn’t the EU rather famous at the moment for forcing foreign businesses to comply with their laws and regulations? e.g. GDPR

And thank God for the EU doing such as well

That said, so long as you don't have data centers in the country, what can they realistically do to stop you if you have a VPN?

There's nothing illegal w.r.t a private citizen trying to circumvent censorship afaik. If you're trying to use illegal content or services (hitmen, drugs, child porn, non us compliant crypto such as finance etc), then I can see the retribution, but unless you go full middle east/CCP people will still get access to and repost it

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#975

Post by kelseyfrog »

badrequest wrote: post #693
zachmu wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tiktok isn't "some website", it is partially owned and controlled by the CCP, which influences what content gets shown to Americans. A majority of zoomers get most of their news and information primarily from this platform, which again is under the influence of a hostile foreign government. (TikTok also spies on US citizens for the CCP, but let's keep this restricted to the free speech argument about the ban). We act…

Yeah, we should only tolerate domestic propaganda outlets.

Like beer, consumers of propaganda should have a choice in foreign or domestic.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#976

Post by deciplex »

lupire wrote: post #950
deciplex wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think we should "lowest common denominator" to oppressive regimes. Chinese approval of their government is much higher than most Western regimes including the US. I think you are right about how we ought to apply the 1st amendment here, but I don't find that Chinese propaganda is any more insidious or pervasive than American. We just manage it differently: in China the state directly controls the media, whi…

Approval is always higher when disapproval is a crime punishable by disappearance.

Okay well disapproval is still in the low double digits (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1116013/china-trust-in-g...) so are you claiming that China has imprisoned / "disappeared" 15% of its population?

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#977

Post by impossiblefork »

takinola wrote: post #787
cangeroo wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do foreign nationals have the same rights as Americans? Foreign companies shouldn't have the same protections. And in many countries, locally-operating subsidiaries are required to have majority ownership by citizens, partly to prevent foreign influence.

Foreign nationals in the US have the same rights (but not privileges) as American citizens.

Foreign nationals present on US soil only. This is why we Europeans have such a problem with having our data transferred to you, i.e. because we don't actually have any rights in the US.

I would characterise our lack of rights as complete. Some years ago Americans began torturing people who had been handed over to them on the promise that they would not be tortured already at Bromma airport, so here in Sweden, and this was presumably legal. I assume that if it had been done to me, it would have been legal as well.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#978

Post by mathgorges »

jessi_lia wrote: post #945
mathgorges wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose that depends on what you mean by “propaganda”. Personally I think it can be convincingly argued that any message transmitted to you from a State is propaganda (Note: that means that I don’t believe that all propaganda is inherently evil, sometimes your interests align with a State. For example governments paying for advertising to discourage smoking is a great thing, IMO!) I’ve never lived in China, but I’v…

I am a Chinese that has been living in the West for a few years. > I’ve never lived in China, but I’ve spoken with many people that have IMO, these opinions are a bit biased. 1) those are probably the people who chose to stay in the West; 2) Chinese people (incl. me) sometimes talk extravagantly about life in a "communist country", since to some degree it pleases the Western audience and adds some fun to the talk. Ma…

Thanks for taking the time to share your experience.

Discussions like this are why I love HN I think I’ll be chewing on your final paragraph for some time. Thank you!!!

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#979

Post by justwph »

amou234 wrote: post #741
throwaway199956 wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't first ammendment protect even that. Propaganda of other countries are legal under first ammendment. Why should we be a nanny state that should dictate which apps one can or cannot use on one's device. Also even at the hight of cold war, Soviet Life magazine was published and disseminated widely in the US.

What most of the posters in this thread don't realize is that US is effectively at war with China. China is working in front of the scenes to be the major funder of Russia's war [1] against Europe, which is US's ally amongst the coalition of democratic countries. China is working behind the scenes to stop the supply of artillery shells to Ukraine. [2]. and it is increasingly and more visibly supplying Russia with mil…

1. China was originally a significant importer of goods from Russia. Over the past two years, due to the lower oil prices from Russia, the import volume has increased by 30%. 2. The total purchasing amount from the European Union and India surpasses that of China, with no single entity making significant purchases of Russian energy. 3. Perhaps you should look into the historical records of energy procurement by India. In 2021, trade with Russia was essentially negligible, but it now constitutes 36%. The main financier behind the scenes should be clearer now.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#980

Post by aprilthird2021 »

matwood wrote: post #724
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>less clear national security threat. Though, one could argue they are radicalizing internal threats. I don't and will never buy this argument that showing people certain media causes violence or is a security threat. People doing violent things is a security threat. What they read or believed that led them to do that is not. Freedom of expression is vital and defending it comes with serious negative consequences. It…

I agree with you! But where I differ is when people get trapped in these algorithmic bubbles because they happen to search for or like something once or twice. Then they are fire hosed that type of content over and over, which IMO is very different than being allowed to say or see something.

That's indeed where we differ. If I were alive when the radio were invented or the television, I wouldn't think the technical change changed my ideals, and I don't think that now
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