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Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

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Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#971

Post by donmcronald »

abhinavk wrote: post #600
gopher_space wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't like what MS is doing with their app store? Fine just release the binary yourself. Whip up a small windows binary and send it to your mom. See if she can run it without any help from you. MS is doing the same thing from a different angle.

* Signed .exe works but has a cost. * Unsigned .exe gets a security prompt to Run/Don't Run for the first time. * MSI has an installation wizard. * MSIX has a simple Install prompt like PWAs.

Are you saying I can distribute an unsigned MSI or MSIX without a SmartScreen warning? Are you sure about that? Others are saying the same thing, but I didn't think that was possible.

Can someone explain it you happen to know?

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#972

Post by gitaarik »

lenkite wrote: post #899
usefulcat wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's entirely a matter of incentives. Companies are like machines whose sole purpose is to make a profit. Pretty much everything they do apart from that (make products, employ people, pollute, etc) is, strictly speaking, a side effect. If they could make just as much money (or more) without doing any of those other things, they absolutely would, and any company that wouldn't do the same would eventually be put out of…

None of the DEI initiatives have anything to do with pure profit. If pure profit was the prime driving initiative, Google Gemini would not turn out like it did.

No, DEI is mostly implemented to be political correct, so that they are somewhat protected from being targeted for those kind of controversial topics. In other words, very important commercial incentive.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#973

Post by gitaarik »

usefulcat wrote: post #755
wkat4242 wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah, its really weird to appeal to the noble intentions of a corporation. They're both just engaged in business. This is what's wrong with the current overly capitalist system. Companies are totally allowed to have no conscience, and externalise whatever they please to consumers and the environment. And you could even argue they are 'forced' to do so by due diligence legislation. If we let this continue there will…

It's entirely a matter of incentives. Companies are like machines whose sole purpose is to make a profit. Pretty much everything they do apart from that (make products, employ people, pollute, etc) is, strictly speaking, a side effect. If they could make just as much money (or more) without doing any of those other things, they absolutely would, and any company that wouldn't do the same would eventually be put out of…

Companies aren't often started just to make profit. Founders are usually passionate about the product / service they are creating, and want to create it to make a nice contribution to the world, and also make their living from it: best of both worlds.

It starts to change when a company is becoming too big. The original founder(s) usually leave or they themselves become infected by the money. In any case, everything becomes more nasty: people are being treated more like numbers, clients too, less personal contact, more lawsuits, etc.

I think the solution is very simple: just make a size limit to how big companies are allowed to grow. They'll have to split up and compete with each other. Way more healthy economy.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#974

Post by thewileyone »

daemin wrote: post #757
amelius wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The issue is that Epic doesn’t want to be Apple’s customer in the first place. They want to publish iOS apps. The fact that this requires them to be an Apple customer is the core problem. Indeed. It all boils down to: if I buy a product from company A, then want to use that product to do business with company B, why does company A have anything to say about it? Am I not the owner of my device?

Increasingly in this modern world, no, you are not the owner of the device. You're more like purchasing the right to use it for a time, in the way that the makers want you to use it. This applies across PCs, Macs, and Phones where Microsoft, Apple, and Google all try to up-sell you on their online services and now their "AI tools".

You buy a car but now you move your TV in it. The car manufacturer prohibits you because you didn't buy their truck and sues you for it. This cannot be allowed to become the norm.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#975

Post by throwaway2990 »

lmm wrote: post #968
throwaway2990 wrote: post #938

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MS threw in the towel unfortunately. Now we are stuck with Apple and trash. People desperately cling onto this false ideology that Android is good and Apple is bad when they are at fault for ignoring Windows Phone which was better with their excuses that “I need thousands is fart apps or I can’t use windows phone”

The "developers developers developers developers" company did an incompatible rewrite of their API what, 4x over? At one point even Osborneing themselves, announcing the new incompatible version of Windows Phone just before putting out the first devices that used the current version. You can only screw over your app makers so many times; sure you may not need thousands of apps, but Windows Phone didn't have YouTube,…

It had what’s app and YouTube. YouTube wasn’t an official app though it was created by MS using the same apis from Google.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#976

Post by amf12 »

threeseed wrote: post #967
TillE wrote: post #958

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DMA requires that companies like Apple provide fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory access for competition. The account is really neither here nor there, it's only an issue because Apple has chosen to make it a requirement to distribute an app marketplace. It's pretty clear that they can't legally freeze out Epic as a competitor, but how they solve that is up to them.

[flagged]

Think about how many times you've violated EULAs.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#977

Post by lmm »

throwaway2990 wrote: post #975
lmm wrote: post #968

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "developers developers developers developers" company did an incompatible rewrite of their API what, 4x over? At one point even Osborneing themselves, announcing the new incompatible version of Windows Phone just before putting out the first devices that used the current version. You can only screw over your app makers so many times; sure you may not need thousands of apps, but Windows Phone didn't have YouTube,…

It had what’s app and YouTube. YouTube wasn’t an official app though it was created by MS using the same apis from Google.

> YouTube wasn’t an official app though it was created by MS using the same apis from Google.

It had a YouTube app briefly, but Google cut it off and stopped it working.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#978

Post by throwaway2990 »

lmm wrote: post #977
throwaway2990 wrote: post #975

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It had what’s app and YouTube. YouTube wasn’t an official app though it was created by MS using the same apis from Google.

> YouTube wasn’t an official app though it was created by MS using the same apis from Google. It had a YouTube app briefly, but Google cut it off and stopped it working.

Misinformed you are.

MS created a YouTube app. Google got upset cos it wasn’t compliant. MS removed the app temporarily and re-released it in the months later when it was compliant with Google, including new features that lacked in the older version.

The app existed for most of windows phone life. It didn’t get cut off. It was removed from the store for several months while MS fixed it. Anyone who had the app still had it.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#979

Post by jv95 »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #768
mrtksn wrote: post #45

I wonder why Apple doesn't open up their platforms to have everything best on their devices instead of fighting and agonising developers and governments. Yes yes, the commission is nice but they might be killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. I mean, Apple is amazingly good in some areas but in some other areas their products are used only because they don't give a choice and they intent to keep it this way. Th…

> embracing the industry standards The iPhone has legendary levels of crapitude. Consider every app you use on the iPhone that is authored by Apple. Would you or its stakeholders still use it if you weren't forced to? Mail? Calendar? Safari? Photos? Music? Fucking Messages? No, no, no, no, no, no. Don't misunderstand me. I am talking about access to the exact same first party APIs and integrations Apple's software ha…

You say these apps are shitty, but you haven’t posted any specifics. What is it that makes these apps so bad? I don’t mind any of the apps you mentioned. I vastly prefer the music app to Spotifys UI (at the least the last time I’ve used it which is admittedly several years ago). Mail notifications are sometimes buggy but I can read my mail just fine. Most calendar apps I’ve tried, even paid once, started spamming me with subscriptions. I do see the issues with photos, namely that Apple pretends that downloaded images are just as important as photos I took myself.

> I don't think people realize how fees and its absolutely horrible discovery is responsible for the shitty state of apps today. […] it is absolutely, 100% Apple's fault that App Store games suck, and Steam's don't.

AFAIK Steam fees are 30% as well at least for the average developer + 100$ for publishing a game. So I don’t think the fees are responsible for the shitty state of apps. I think it’s more about customers not wanting to pay for mobile apps in general. Looking at a few successful indie games, they tend to be free (and ad or iAP supported) on the App Store but are sold directly on steam. For example vampire survivors is free (+ Ads) on iOS but costs 5€ on steam. Other games release full price on IOS but the UI is so bad that it’s barely playable.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#980

Post by erichocean »

Copernicron wrote: post #928
miga wrote: post #925

Apple is a monopolist on a service that is public. Termination of developer account in this case merits FTC action.

Citation needed. Apple is not a monopolist. The judge in the Epic Games suit even said so[0]. It also isn't a public service. It's a private service operated by a private company where you have to pay to play. And part of paying means agreeing to certain terms and conditions before you're allowed access. Violating that agreement is grounds for termination of your access. [0] https://www.npr.org/2021/09/10/1036043886/…

> by a private company

Apple is, in fact, a public company.

As a US-based company, there are many things that Apple is not able to do——for example, they cannot refuse to sell to Black people, despite violating Apple's freedom to "associate" with whoever they want, for whatever "private" reason they may have.

The US government can decide that Apple must provide equal access to all of its citizens, and in fact, the 14th Amendment and the various Civil Rights acts that it enables seems to require that every company that sells "to the public" treat members of the public equally.

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