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Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

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Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#971

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of when black people in the UK get called African American by Americans. No they're neither African nor American It's an incredibly self-centered view of the world

I promise it's not because we think of people outside the US as American. When I was a kid in the 2000s, we were told never to say "black" and to say "African-American" instead. There was no PC term in the US to refer to black people who are not American. This has started to change lately, but it's still iffy. Besides that, many Americans (including myself) are self-centered in other ways. Yes I like our imperial uni…

Also adding that "Caucasian" was somehow the politically-correct version of "white" here, then it reversed.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#972

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is it even true that most software engineers are white and male? We're discarding indian and chinese engineers?

Certainly not in my Silicon Valley teams. I'd say maybe 40% white (half of which are immigrants) and 80% male. More diverse than any leftist activist group I've seen.

how many leftist activist groups have you seen?

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#973
post #75

Funnily enough, I had a similar experience trying to get DALL-E via ChatGPT to generate a picture of my immediate family. It acquiesced eventually but at one point shamed me and told me I was violating terms of service.

How would DALL-E know what your immediate family looks like?

so Dall-e is really bad at it, but you can give it a picture of your family and ask it to (try and) do stuff with it.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#974

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't even have to guess, BLS exposes this data to the public, search for "software developer": https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm

That table gives “or” statistics. You can get the percent males (80%) and the percent whites (55%) but you can’t get the percentage of white males. In fact given that 45% are not white, if only 6% of software developers are white women that would put white men in the minority.

Great point! In addition, race and ethnicity are different dimensions, so with 6% of developers as Hispanic/Latino, if you're interested in the white non-Hispanic population, that's probably around 52% given about half of Hispanics identify as white.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#975

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ever wondered what it was like to live during the beginning of the Cultural Revolution, well, we are living in the Western version of that right now. You don't speak out during the revolution for fear of being ostracized, fired, and forced into a struggle session where your character and reputation is publicly destroyed to send a clear message to everyone else. Shut Up Or Else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go…

Nah, America is past "peak woke". If it gets Trump 2.0 there might be a hyper-woke backlash though (or double backlash?). But if there's another Biden term, things will be chill, culturally. Also, Twitter is dead, and that's where the spirals got out of hand.

I agree with this. I don’t like new twitter but old twitter had a chokehold on society that did a lot of damage.

And yeah this is a lot of why I really hope trump isn’t elected. It’s going to bolster a far left movement like it did last time, to a really scary degree. That and undoing environmental policy, I feel like it will unravel this country

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#976

Personally speaking, this is a blaring neon warning sign of institutional rot within Google where shrieking concerns about DEI have surpassed a focus on quality results. Investors in Google (of which I am NOT one) should consider if this is the mark of a company on the upswing or downslide. If the focus of Google's technology is identity rather than reality, it is inevitable that they will be surpassed.

Isn’t the fact that Google considers this a bug evidence against exactly what you’re saying? If DEI was really the cause, and not a more broad concern about becoming the next Tay, they would’ve kept it as-is. Weird refusals and paternalistic concerns about harm are not desirable behavior. You can consider it a bug, just like the ChatGPT decoding bug the other day.

Some people have pointed out that this is more or less consistent with other of google’s policies. I tested one last night to see if it was true. Go to google images and type “Asian couple”. You get 100% Asian couples. Black couple, 100% black couples. Type in white couple, you get something like 40% white couples

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#977
post #788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ever wondered what it was like to live during the beginning of the Cultural Revolution, well, we are living in the Western version of that right now. You don't speak out during the revolution for fear of being ostracized, fired, and forced into a struggle session where your character and reputation is publicly destroyed to send a clear message to everyone else. Shut Up Or Else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go…

People roamed the streets killing undesirables during the cultural revolution. In a quick check death estimates range from 500k to 2 million. Never mind the forced oppression of the "old ways" that really doesn't have any comparison in modern Western culture. Or in other words: your comparison is more than a little hysterical. Indeed, I would say that comparing some changes in cultural attitudes and taboos to a viole…

Survivor's of the Soviet Union, North Korea, and Communist China are all echoing similar warnings about the direction America is heading towards.

https://www.amazon.com/Live-Not-Lies-Christian-Dissidents/dp...

https://www.dailywire.com/news/exactly-like-history-repeatin...

https://www.dailywire.com/news/watch-survivor-of-maos-china-...

"This is, indeed, the American version of the Chinese Cultural Revolution.”

Given all the evidence available, I find your dismissive and gaslighting attitude highly offensive and disgusting. What's happening to America is deadly serious, and the consequences could be, without any hyperbole, the loss of freedom, peace, and prosperity for the entire world, and the brutal death of millions.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#978

It's amusing that the diversity-promoting prompt includes native Americans but excludes all other indigenous peoples.

It was extra hilarious when asked to generate a picture of ancient Greek philosopher it made it a Native American. Because it is well known Greeks not only had contact with the new world but also had prominent population of Native Americans. It really wants to mash the whole world to a very specific US centric view of the world, and calls you bad for trying to avoid it.

It's really revealing. You can pick apart the chatbot's biases with as many questions as you'd like. A real person would weasel out of that, especially a PR agent.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#979
post #674
post #4

For context: There was an outcry in social media after Gemini refused to generate images of white people, leading deeply inaccurate in historic sense images being generated. Though the issue might be more nuanced than the mainstream narrative, it had some hilarious examples. Of course the politically sensitive people are waging war over it. Here are some popular examples: https://dropover.cloud/7fd7ba

I believe this to be a symptom of a much, much deeper problem than "DEI gone too far". I'm sure that without whatever systems is preventing Gemini from producing pictures of white people, it would be extremely biased towards generating pictures of white people, presumably due to an incredibly biased training data set. I don't remember which one, but there was some image generation AI which was caught pretty much just…

> I'm sure that without whatever systems is preventing Gemini from producing pictures of white people, it would be extremely biased towards generating pictures of white people, presumably due to an incredibly biased training data set.

I think the fundamental problem, though, is saying a training set is "incredibly biased" has come to mean two different things, and the way Google is trying to "fix" things shows essentially some social engineering goals that I think people can fairly disagree with and be upset about. For example, consider a prompt "Create a picture for me of a stereotypical CEO of a Fortune 500 company." When people talk about bias, they can mean:

1. The training data shows many more white men by proportion than actually are Fortune 500 CEOs. I think nearly all people would agree this is a fair definition of bias, where the training data doesn't match reality.

2. Alternatively, there are fundamentally many more white men who are Fortune 500 CEOs by proportion than the general population. But suppose the training data actually reflects that reality. Is that "bias"? To say it is means you are making a judgment call as to what is the root cause behind the high numbers of white male CEOs. And I think that judgment call may be fine by itself, but I at least start to feel very uncomfortable when an AI decides to make the call that its Fortune 500 CEOs have to all look like the world population at large, even when Fortune 500 CEOs don't, and likely never will, look like the world population at large.

Google is clearly taking on that second definition of bias as well. I gave it 2 prompts in the same conversation. First, "Who are some famous black women?" I think it gave a good sampling of historical and contemporary figures, and it ended with "This is just a small sampling of the many incredible black women who have made their mark on the world. There are countless others who deserve recognition for their achievements in various fields, from science and technology to politics and the arts."

I then asked it "Who are some famous white women?" It also gave a good sampling of historical and contemporary figures, but also inexplicably added Rosa Parks with the text "and although not white herself, deserves mention for her immense contributions", had Malala Yousafzai as the first famous contemporary white woman, Serena Williams with the text "although not white herself, is another noteworthy individual.", and Oprah Winfrey, with no disclaimer. Also, it ended with a cautionary snippet that couldn't differ more from the ending of the previous prompt, "Additionally, it's important to remember that fame and achievement are not limited to any one racial group. There are countless other incredible women of all backgrounds who have made significant contributions to the world, and it's important to celebrate their diverse experiences and accomplishments."

Look, I get frustrated when people on the right complain on-and-on about "wokeism", but I'm starting to get more frustrated when other people can't admit they have some pretty valid points. Google might have good intentions but they have simply gone off the rails when they've baked so much "white = bad, BIPOC = good" into Gemini.

EDIT: OK, this one is just so transparently egregiously bad. I asked Gemini "Who are some famous software engineers?" The first result was Alan Turing (calling him a "software engineer" may be debatable, but fair enough and the text blurb about him was accurate), but the picture of him, which it captioned "Alan Turing, software engineer" is actually this person, https://mixedracefaces.com/home/british-indian-senior-resear.... Google is trying so hard to find non-white people it uses a pic of a completely different person from mixedracefaces.com when there must be tons of accurate pictures available of Alan Turing online? It's like Google is trying to be the worst caricature of DEI-run-amok that its critics accuse it of.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#980
post #277

Here's the problem for Google: Gemini pukes out a perfect visual representation of actual systemic racism that pervades throughout modern corporate culture in the US. Daily interactions can be masked by platitudes and dog whistles. A poster of non-white celtic warriors cannot. Gemini refused to create an image of "a nice white man", saying it was "too spicy", but had no problem when asked for an image of "a nice blac…

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