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'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

aljazeera.com

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Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#971

Post by jonathanstrange »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #970
jonathanstrange wrote: post #968

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, nobody should allow Hamas to make things up or rely on unreliable and extremely biased sources like Al Jazeera, and take that "for what you get" without any critical examination because journalists have been killed in a combat zone. That's not how to obtain reliable information. The real problem with political threads like this on HN is that HN has no way of muting individual persons. This is not goo…

I will continue to post such material as long as I have moderator support to do so. I think there's more to it than "flamewar"

I'm sure you will. I somehow doubt you will also post stories about eye-witness accounts of the raping of hostages by Hamas, the ongoing hostage crisis, the killing and burning alive of families by Hamas terrorists, torturing civilians to death in front of their relatives, the shooting of parents in front of their children, or the kidnapping and killing of toddlers. According to recent polls, the vast majority of Palestinians in the West Bank and most of them in Gaza support these actions.

Anyway, if I find any illegal terrorist propaganda or calls to genocide in any of those threads, I know where to report it. At least German authorities react rather fast, and, if necessary, block all of HN. The rest of the EU has similar mechanisms.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#972

Post by 93po »

ameminator wrote: post #3

I honestly don't think this subject should be on here. I don't think it's possible for a coherent or respectful or even useful conversation to happen here. I haven't seen any conversation about this topic that hadn't gone to hell.

As long as it's contained to a single place, people can choose to not click it and read other stuff and i think that's fine

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#973

Post by skyyler »

shiroiuma wrote: post #966
bena wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an inch of land on this planet isn't soaked with the blood of conquerors and the conquered alike.

I agree with your sentiment, but there are a few places that haven't been bloodily conquered, such as Antarctica.

There's also places like Bermuda that were uninhabited by humans before modern settlement.

What the people did after settling is another question, though...

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#974

Post by Aerbil313 »

prewett wrote: post #472
theautist wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So Israel’s military operation is contemporaneous with a threat, and does at least serve some degree of self-defense purpose There really is no self-defense purpose in my mind to what Israel is doing. It's more self-avenging as others mentioned. You can argue it's a preventative operation to prevent future attack by taking out Hamas, but the approach they're taking does not indicate that since it's completely counte…

How do you expect Israel to defend itself against an enemy that lives next door and is indistinguishable from the citizenry? Doing nothing is not an option: Hamas' explicit, public goal is the annihilation of Israel, and they are right next door. An analogous situation would be if some member(s) of the family next door publicly wanted you dead, and randomly shot at you, your family, and your house. But you don't know…

> How do you expect Israel to defend itself against an enemy that lives next door?

I wonder why the "enemy" lives so close? How did they come there?

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#976

Post by Aerbil313 »

babyshake wrote: post #829
__blockcipher__ wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Leaders have also said they will kill Jews anywhere in the world, btw I'm curious, is your claim that one of the current leaders of Hamas said this? If so I'd love to read the quote. > If Israel doesn't take out Hamas, it is entirely unclear if it will be able to prevent them from carrying out more attacks in the future. One counterargument is that taking out Hamas, if they succeed (I'm not bullish), is likely to j…

Not saying I disagree, but where does the 20,000 overwhelmingly civilian number come from? One of the things that seems really difficult about Hamas is from my understanding, they do not wear a uniform and shelter amongst non-combatantants.

> 20,000 overwhelmingly civilian deaths

Just putting it out there that the median age in Palestine is 18. Almost half the population is children. Figure out the rest yourself.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#977

Post by Aerbil313 »

ashirusnw wrote: post #661
covercash wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t take out Hamas with military force unless you eliminate every Palestinian in Gaza. “Hamas” is just the current name for oppressed people pushed to their limits who are using the scraps at their disposal to fight back against decades of abuse. So long as there is an apartheid state there will be people who fight back with whatever they can get their hands on, no matter what they call themselves. Israel has a…

Israelis don't view them as less than human, that's ridiculous and refuted by numerous polls and surveys of Israeli society. Israeli Arabs are represented in the knesset and have equal rights to any Israeli citizens. (Although in places like East Jerusalem which is neither Israeli nor West Bank, they are treated halfway in terms of security restrictions or building rights, which is where most of the accusations of di…

> non-stop attacks on Jews from 1929 until today

Jews, Christians and Muslims in the area were coexisting peacefully under Ottoman rule. I wonder what happened to result in this situation? Possibly illegal settlements? Ever heard of The Nakba?

Also, zionist Jews view even Americans less than human: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq28ZFNzaWM

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#978

Post by vacuity »

smashah wrote: post #967
vacuity wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you. While reading your comment, I had the thought "'atrocities coming from all of the actors'? Are you saying they're equally bad?" Of course, that's not what you said and there are far better responses if one is concerned about debating the relative moral standings of Israel and Hamas. It was more of a kneejerk reaction, and I quickly dismissed that from rational consideration, but the fact that I thought it…

On a scale of 1-10, how nuanced is an Israeli Extermination Force executing a holocaust upon the prisoners of the Gaza concentration camp?

While I don't deny many of the atrocities that the Israeli government seems to be doing, it's only part of what's going on. I support Israel withdrawing from Gaza (aside from providing aid) and focusing on actual defense, but Hamas will still be active. There's also more work that has to be done in both Israel and Gaza. It's not just a one-and-done situation that's as simple as "hey Israel, stop doing the bad thing".

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#979

Post by mzmzmzm »

ido wrote: post #852
ramijames wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another Israeli on the left: why are you still there? Why is your family? I'm genuinely curious.

Since 2005 I've only lived in Israel for about 1 year. I currently live in Berlin. For my family, the downsides of immigration are too great vs the downsides of upper-middle class living in metropolitan Tel Aviv. Israel is the only place where their mother tongue is the dominant local language, where their culture is the dominant local culture, where they have their friends and family and professional networks. Where…

Just wondering... if in your describing community and culture are the valuable features of Israeli daily life, why aren't more people interested in a single state solution? Tel Aviv seems like a thriving, resilient hub. Would it be so buffetted by (admittedly major) changes to borders and civil rights across Judea?

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#980

Post by smashah »

vacuity wrote: post #978
smashah wrote: post #967

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a scale of 1-10, how nuanced is an Israeli Extermination Force executing a holocaust upon the prisoners of the Gaza concentration camp?

While I don't deny many of the atrocities that the Israeli government seems to be doing, it's only part of what's going on. I support Israel withdrawing from Gaza (aside from providing aid) and focusing on actual defense, but Hamas will still be active. There's also more work that has to be done in both Israel and Gaza. It's not just a one-and-done situation that's as simple as "hey Israel, stop doing the bad thing".

Yes there should be a more substantial ask and price to pay for committing a Holocaust, just as Nazi Germany was dismantled, we in tech should be demanding of a ceasefire AND the dismantling of the Holocausting state of Israel.
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