Live data from Hacker News

Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

missionlocal.org

971–980 of 1001 posts

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#971
post #912

This is shocking and saddening, and should also be a lesson to this community: previous threads on this tragedy immediately jumped to blaming the homeless, when the overwhelming majority of violent crimes are committed by individuals known to the victim. Edit: Added "violent," to preempt diversions about non-violent crimes.

I'd say that the lesson learned needs to be broader than that. Any time Texas, California, Portland etc are mentioned the culture warriors of the left and right come out. The effect is a lot of lost trust for each other in this community when that happens. I do appreciate the people who posted on the other thread saying they were wrong about assuming a homeless person did it, but this won't be the last time culture w…

"Both sides"

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#972
post #748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not in the tech circle news, but this murder happened literally days after Hindenburg Research released a very long article on money laundering and widespread fraud at Block (CashApp's parent company). Apparently the app is widely used to launder drug money. Not saying that's related, but you would have to investigate that angle in a murder.

Wow that article is very detailed and there is tons of exploitative practices https://hindenburgresearch.com/block/

Hindenburg has an incredible track record. Every time they release a report, it’s a major news event in the financial world. If they write about your business, you can easily expect the stock to drop 10-25%. Their last report on Adani caused the stock to drop nearly 60%.

Honestly they’re doing the job regulators should be doing.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#973

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people on HN came to SF from elsewhere for money/career reasons, and were upset to discover that the city is not an extension of the Moscone Center (ironically enough named after a former mayor who was murdered - by one of the city supervisors who thought he was too 'woke': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Moscone ).

Not to completely call Moscone the height of evil but there are definite allegations about him taking money/influence peddling from Jim Jones and the People’s Temple

He absolutely did, although I think this is one of those things that looks way worse with hindsight.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#974
post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand why it can’t be both: SF is degenerating when it comes to random crime AND this murder wasn’t by some random thug. Always important to reflect on whether stances like "SF is degenerating" are based on a rational analysis of what is actually happening, versus a more emotional response to stories that might be more like the topic of this post, just with less visibility into the exact circumstances of…

I've seen SF degenerating with my very own eyes and smelled it with my very own nose. Yes, this particular case may or may not be (we don't have jury decision yet) part of this pattern. But no amount of "akshually, this carefully picked statistic clearly shows that the crime is much better than it was in 1980s!" is going to change how I felt when I went to SF and how my eyes watered from the urine stench when I tried…

Curious -- how much time have you spent elsewhere in the western world in recent years? I don't mean small towns in the midwest, I mean other cities of similar size and economic importance. I suspect you'll find that San Francisco isn't really special, and, in fact, the problems facing SF are facing most of the world, especially in the wake of the pandemic.

Interestingly, there's strong correlative evidence that wealth inequality is linked to increased crime in developed nations. So that's a fun fact!

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#975
post #954

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the murder, I had to read scores of comments like this ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35456168 ) about the homeless, need for more law enforcement (although the US already incarcerates more of its population than any industrialized country) etc. I had to read scores of tech bros in the professional-managerial class whinge about the poor, about black lives matter and how this was due to "progressivism".…

> people made homeless by the enormous wealth disparity There’s a tiny possibility that feckless bureaucrats, billions of dollars spent with no oversight, mental illness, and drug addiction share just a sliver of the responsibility

Sure, though if we're talking about crime, inequality is probably the strongest correlation to crime rates.[0]

"In industrialised societies, the prevalence of exploitation, in the form of crime, is related to the distribution of economic resources: more unequal societies tend to have higher crime, as well as lower social trust."

0. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-80897-8

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#976

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the city’s violent crime rate is at a near-historic low, and is lower than most mid-to-large-sized cities. Wow, more evidence that this is a city in the US?

I have walked around my city in the US for decades and can count on one hand the number of times, I have seen crime happen live and in person on our streets. In a recent single trip to SF that was just a few days, I can say I saw perhaps a half dozen active crimes. Also of note, i have seen public urination only once here, but saw it twice in between the airport and my hotel in SF. Live where ya want and how you want…

Of course SF isn't normal it is the archetype for the city as an insane asylum created by Reaganomics.

But it seems SF shows that has nothing to do with the epidemic of murder in the US or it is least prevalent in leftist cities that decided to take over federal responsibilities that Reagan stopped honoring in a rather odd way.

Trying to make everything you can call one word one horrible new problem doesn't solve something. It makes people think there is some hopeless complex problem instead of many separate cause and effect incidents for unrelated things.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#977
I’m kind of annoyed at people who automatically assume that homeless commit more crimes. Is there any stats to suggest that they commit more crimes than homed people? Sure, maybe they do some petty theft (I don’t know - is there any research). Maybe. I imagine most of it is in stores and not mugging people or crimes of opportunity. Most of them are just really down on their luck for whatever reason and can’t find their way out. There’s this narrative that forms, explicitly or implicitly, that these people are in that situation because they deserve to be. The drug problem they have is the cause of their homelessness (despite all the research repeatedly showing that giving people housing they can count on and a good support system is the best way to get then rehabilitated).

We find the crime narrative so appealing though. It’s those dirty homeless. That’s why crime has gone up (homicides in SF at historic lows). And it’s exceedingly hard to overcome emotionally. I get it. But HN is supposed to be a logical community, not one where emotions are allowed to run rampant.

When I walked up to my car with broken windows, my initial reaction was to blame the homeless guy next to our on the street. But realistically, who would stay by the site of a crime? Maybe that’s what he wanted me to think, but seems unlikely and he was very afraid I’d tear into him about it because that’s probably happened to him more than once in the past. They know how other people look at them and that takes a serious mental toll on you. How could it not if the vast majority of people around you treat you like shit. I had to remember that the factual reporting on the topic seems to point that SF’s car breakins problem is an organized crime. A crime ring the SF police can’t or won’t get a handle on. Maybe an explicit deal to keep homicide rates low? It came out Toronto police had been doing that and following that violent crimes started going up quite rapidly. Drug dealers and organized crime organizations aren’t sleeping on the streets. Heck, I’m pretty sure one tried to approach me to be a mule and he was dressed upscale and definitely not homeless. Most violence is reliably either someone you know or more organized crime (eg gang initiations).

Sure. SF does have a really bad homeless problem. And they do cause problems but it’s mostly around there being messes everywhere which is unpleasant and is uncomfortable being around unpredictable people with mental illnesses. But I wouldn’t want to be in their shoes mostly because of how society treats them, so I at least try to have some compassion and engage with them from time to time. I know how to distinguish discomfort from feeling unsafe. I know logically and factually even crazy people walking around on the street are not going to turn into a problem (I’m surrounded by them daily in the part of the city I live). But it’s still uncomfortable to be around and even my dog is wary of people like that which speaks to the base lizard brain reacting. I accept that’s my reaction but it fundamentally is not the other person’s problem. I’m responsible for my reaction to uncomfortable feelings.

That’s why I made the comment I did here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899&p=8#35454676. I’m not surprised I was right. I’m sad at how strong and prevalent the “it’s gotta be the homeless” crowd was, facts be dammed.

People really need to understand homelessness and react to it with compassion rather than treating it like a dirty thing they might infect you with if they come near and the source of societies problems. Homelessness is ultimately a reflection of the failing of our society, not a reflection of the failings of the individuals impacted by it.

PS: the homeless don’t get any protection on the streets from the police. Most homeless crime is homeless on homeless because the police refuse to keep them safe or because the homeless district the police / governments due to repeated cycles of abuse and victimization. Not sure what the story is in SF per se, but I can’t imagine that part is better.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#978

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The linked article specifically shows that violent crime in SF is at an all time low, and lower than most other comparably sized cities.

Sure. However the "lack of safety" perception is real too. If a homeless person walks up to you and aggressively threatens you as you are passing by, no crime has occurred. But if you're an SF native, you've learned to shrug it off as a commonplace occurrence. You've learned to become thick skinned towards these incidences. And when a real crime has happened, you'd likely assign more gravitas to it. This is why there…

>If a homeless person walks up to you and aggressively threatens you as you are passing by, no crime has occurred.

Depending on what they say, isn't that still technically "assault"? Or "disturbing the peace"?

Also, if there's poop all over the sidewalks, those are all crimes too.

The problem is that all these petty crimes are generally never reported, and certainly not acted upon by police. So they never show up in the crime statistics.

There's a disconnect between the numbers and quoted statistics and reality, because the statistics come from the police, and their reporting isn't accurate. It isn't accurate anywhere of course, because police aren't perfect and many crimes go unreported for various reasons, but to SF natives, it may seem that this is worse in SF than other places, or in SF in earlier times.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#979

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not surprising. You're on a forum full of techies and tech execs. It's like the people in Hollywood incredulous that #metoo movement was a thing because "they didn't know anyone like that!" until their coworkers and friends were outed. Same here - techies shocked, _shocked_ that one of "their own" could commit a crime like this. Easier for them to talk about crime in general than lay blame at the feet on one of "thei…

Are you suggesting that committing murder and violent crime is pervasive among tech executives?

[flagged]
Post reply on HN