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Nobody wants to teach anymore

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Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#971

Post by dhosek »

dhosek wrote: post #957
midoridensha wrote: post #891

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When America isn't even near the top of spending-per-GDP, there's no way it's higher than all the other countries combined in per-capita spending.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_... >USA's military spending in 2021 hit $801bn a year, says the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. In comparison Russia's military spending in 2021 hit only $66bn. US population: 329.5 million, Russian population: 144.1 million, Per capita spending US: $24,600. Russia: $458 While I’m at it: US GDP: 20.94 trillion, 1.483 trillion US military s…

And “not near the top of spending per GDP” is not really an accurate assessment. From this data https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/defense-s... we can see that the countries with higher spending per GDP fall into one or more of the following categories:

- smaller, poorer countries

- countries involved in active military conflicts or with active military conflicts near them

- petrostates

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#972

Post by s1artibartfast »

justin66 wrote: post #861
lr4444lr wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not disagreeing with what you just wrote above,but do you have a source for > If the "it" you're referring to is social security, this is, to use your phrase from above, "patently untrue." ? Because everything I am reading suggests those states whose teachers whose work years only go to pension and not SS eligibility are not having their teachers pay into SS.

That part is right! The problem comes at the end of a career when the SSA needs, under the WPA rules, to weigh what the teacher in question is going to be paid by the teacher’s pension (which by design was paid into instead of social security) against what the teacher paid into social security via payroll taxes before or after their career as a teacher, or during summer work during their career as a teacher. The SSA…

I just wanted to thank for persistently conveying this.

I have family who were teachers in CA and lost all of the SS benefits they paid into.

It is a terrible injustice. So much so that whenever I bring it up, people simply refuse to believe it is true.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#973

Post by s1artibartfast »

Beltalowda wrote: post #812
logicalmonster wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a European, it has always been perplexing to me how little the US invests in teachers and schools, given that we know how huge the benefits are down the road (educational attainment, income, pro-social behavior, life satisfaction). 1) European perspectives on a lot of American problems miss one of the biggest differences between us: you have a lot more of a homogeneous population. There's numerous differences be…

> There's numerous differences between designing a school system for basically all Hungarian or all Norwegian kids, for example, and figuring out what the hell you can do with a school mixed with Latinos, Asians, Blacks, and Whites with all different levels of interests, drive, and ability. Why would Latinos, Asians, Blacks, and Whites all require a radically different education? It seems to me that math is math, you…

It is hard to teach math to someone who doesn't speak your language.

This is one of the biggest challenges in many US states. For example, 20% of students in California do not have basic proficiency with English and 40% of students do not speak it at home. This puts a huge burden on teachers and school systems.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#974

Post by yonaguska »

status_quo69 wrote: post #587
Tomte wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Source? For example the Wall Street Journal. And hundreds of similar articles. https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-california-2-2-4-may-be-thou... > This is such a wild claim it has to be made up. This is against the site's rules. > I'm personally hard pressed to find that one person tweeting means that all math teachers everywhere Funny how you build up a straw man. I never claimed any of that.

> This is against the site's rules. I apologize, that was a knee jerk reaction because I've never seen the assertion that 2+2=4 is racist before, only that math can be used inaccurately (purposefully or by accident) in racial contexts. I was a bit taken aback by the assertion and should have engaged differently. > Funny how you build up a straw man. I never claimed any of that. This isn't a straw man, I'm not buildin…

All of these things take away the very limited classroom time that should be spent on skills rather than non math topics. She would regularly bemoan lost days, because at the end of the year the kids had to take a math test, not a history of math test.

All of this stuff has nothing to do with math, and doesn't actually help them learn math skills. Students of color aren't struggling with math because they don't have role models in the field. It's a universal language. They struggled with math due to lack of literal time spent studying, practicing, and drilling these concepts. They struggle because someone white tells them that they need role models in the field instead of simply letting them be capable and giving them the tools to learn.

And as someone of color, when you constantly push it in my face that I'm underrepresented, that math is primarily for white people, which you ultimately are doing by trying to bring race into everything, it then gives me an excuse for failure. It simply feeds into the victim mentality and kids will give up before they begin. Success is born from work, not hero worship. When you are inspired by someone, if you find inspiration from the color of their skin, and not the actual blood, sweat, and years they put into success, you are setting yourself up for failure.

Looking at the opportunities available to you from the lens of race is like shooting yourself in the foot. If I had done that- I would have assumed that my most likely path to success was going to be with a ball in my hands. And if I don't see a black man in a specific field...then how could I ever be successful in that field myself?

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#975

Post by nomaxx117 »

pnf wrote: post #939
bmitc wrote: post #913

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an anecdote, I was a math major. I took an elective course on the history of mathematics, which must have been a requirement for math education majors, who were under a separate department and even college (i.e., not the math department or college of the arts and sciences). I was the only math major, and I'm pretty sure the only male in a class of about 20 or so. The professor was one of the easiest and most strai…

Education programs are the cash cows of universities. They are universally, intentionally subpar compared to the other colleges.

How so? Do schools underfund these programs yet heavily promote them?

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#976

Post by Meekro »

8note wrote: post #626
obscurette wrote: post #618

1. This is not about America. I'm from Eastern Europe and we have the very same problems. 2. This is not about money. Yes, being underpaid is part of a problem how teachers feel, but no money compensates humiliation and bullying teachers are experiencing. 3. It's not a rant. This EXACTLY how I feel after spending three years at school. I was a math teacher in classes of my kids because a school couldn't find any. Yes…

I think if teaching was a $2M/year job, plenty of people would want to teach. They might not be good at it, but actually good money will draw many candidates

The property tax on your average home would be so high, only a teacher could afford it.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#977

Post by kevingadd »

Beltalowda wrote: post #809
kevingadd wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By what standard is that actually "plenty"? Is that $13185 enough to properly fund all the services a child needs for a proper education? And if it's not, why not? How much do you believe we should be spending per student? You can point at a big number and say 'that's enough' but we spend large amounts of money on all sorts of things, the number being large doesn't mean it's sufficient. There are tons of children in…

The figure in the Netherlands is about €6.7k for an elementary school pupil (until age ~12, not sure how that compares to K-12 exactly). So that's a little over half of what the US spends, and I think it's fair to say that Dutch elementary education is at least roughly comparable to US education (maybe one is a little bit better than the other, but I'd be surprised if the US one was twice as good). I don't know about…

Yeah, we spend money to operate school police departments here too. I totally believe you that the Netherlands' spending is adequate given costs and services, though.

I assume you don't have private health insurance plans in the Netherlands either? Those will raise the cost per teacher in the US.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#978

Post by PeterStuer »

christophilus wrote: post #786
gorgoiler wrote: post #645

I tried teaching high school CS for the best part of two years in a private school. Everything to do with the pupils was amazing and I loved every moment. I am a natural with behaviour management and although it was stressful, every time the bad kids acted up it presented a teachable moment. You could really feel the impact on their lives and behaviour, well behind the Python and the TCP/IP and while loops. But every…

I taught at a code school. It was absolutely crazy. I’d never do it again, but I totally loved the teaching and mentoring aspect of it. The business and sales aspect pushed me away. That, and a particular SJW fellow teacher. I have a fairly high tolerance for that sort of thing, but they were insufferable beyond words.

"a particular SJW fellow teacher. I have a fairly high tolerance for that sort of thing, but they were insufferable beyond words."'

I wonder how many decent teachers were bitten by this

'

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#979

Post by acjohnson55 »

archduck wrote: post #897
dnissley wrote: post #870

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue here is that I fundamentally disagree with the direction of this particular ribbing. I think we should be sensitive to this kind of naive questioning, which comes from a good place (wanting to make teaching easier and more effective) and can lead down productive paths where our priors are deconstructed such that we change what we think of as possible. We work in an industry where rabbits have been p…

I'm certainly no fan of shutting people down for asking questions. I think we may be interpreting the context of the question differently though. The parent poster was recounting having worked as a math teacher, stressed out every day from the planning and grading demands of the job, working in excess of 12 hours per day, earning a salary low enough that colleagues without a spouse's income to help out had to work a…

FWIW, as the person who raised the criticism of the snark, I also am a former math teacher. I have experienced just how much more valued I am as a software engineer. I have experienced how vastly better my work-life balance is. I, too, have observed how folks in the tech startup scene can approach complex social problems with overconfidence in tech solutions. So I have a similar claim as the OP to feeling insulted and entitled to snark back. I just don't think it's the right thing to do, from the standpoints of how I aspire to treat people and from a pragmatic standpoint of seeing the changes I want.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#980

Post by draebek »

kweingar wrote: post #862
nemothekid wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A secondary problem is that public schools have essentially transformed into state nannys. 1. You can't send the kids home because both parents are probably working. It's more likely the kid becomes lost forever and it becomes a government problem again once that kid is now living an alternative lifestyle that consumes government resources in other ways (crime, homelessness, or health). 2. Because of the realities of…

> I think a lot of problems with child education and just be traced back to economic realities of many parents today. This is it. Our framework for understanding childhood success is based entirely in “school quality”. If a child enters adulthood with a criminal record, without job skills, or without prospects for higher education, it is always blamed on either the parents or the school system. The only remedies anyo…

I agree, you have to address these things outside the school. This is the same story when it comes to policing: police can arrest people all you want, but unless you're willing to significantly increase our existing lead in incarcerations per capita, it seems like just arresting people isn't working. On the other hand, if you can give people homes, food, jobs, and healthcare, I believe the crime rate will drop.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I suspect there are plenty of measures by which other countries achieve better educational outcomes with lower educational spending, in which case I'd be willing to bet that they are simply spending more in "social programs" (broadly speaking) than the United States.

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