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Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

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Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#971

Post by faeriechangling »

developer93 wrote: post #775
twh270 wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. I've had many conversations about this topic with my son (and on occasion some of his friends -- both male and female), since he was in middle school (a decade ago). They're well aware of how men are portrayed versus women. We've transitioned from "A women's place is in the home (barefoot, pregnant, and cooking a delicious meal for her husband)" to "A woman's place is whatever she wants, and men are the reason f…

Well, decades ago, men did run the world, to all intents and purposes. They're still in most positions of power (politics ceos etc), most things are designed by men, etc. This doesn't mean that it's the fault of every single man, any more than as a Brit who benefits from a legacy of empire that I'm personally responsible for whatever massacres. You can be aware of it without taking the blame.

So punish them instead of the young! Drain their bank accounts and fire the CEOs. Why is the focus on blaming the young and the innocent?

Punishing the most vulnerable individuals of a group because of the collective sins of that group, we may as well feed males lead until they're out of the game, it's only really one step further than subjecting them to systemic discrimination. JUSTICE!

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#972

Post by atoav »

flippinburgers wrote: post #511

Men are not doing as well as women in school. If you look in the wrong places on the internet, media, or daily life, all you see is negativity towards masculinity. In addition, there doesn't appear to be any broad social system that is geared towards supporting men. The fact that men don't tend to be a socially adept doesn't help. This all feels like the perfect storm and there are plenty of people who act like "men…

> If you look in the wrong places on the internet, media, or daily life, all you see is negativity towards masculinity.

In my eyes it is just that masculinity that often is the problem. The problem is not that kids live in an environment that doesn't like it if they e.g. resort to violent and/or foreceful behaviour to assure themselves of their masculinity — the problem is, that the kids think their worth as a human being depends on fulfilling these outdated male ideals. And who can blame them? It is all a matter of having the right role models in your life.

Having worked with teens from troubled social backgrounds I can assure you that the behaviour and expectations of the parents feed into this in a powerful (and often very destructive!) way.

Your task as a parent is to prepare your kids for the world they will live in. If the world changed and males are expected to be more empathetic, less aggressive, etc. then don't scold your boy for crying, playing with puppets or other things you perceive as "unmanly". Be critical about the way you as a parent deal with your own feelings of sadness, anger, etc in front of your kids.

I had the luck to have had a very caring father, and I never had the feeling that my masculinity was endangered. If anything I felt sorry for all the guys in my surrounding who tried so hard to hide their feelings that they started to forget they had any.

So in short: the problem with masculinity is that many boys learn from their surroundings that the self worth of a man is connected how masculine he acts and can be reduced if he acts feminine. This is utter bullshit. Your kid should be allwoed to explore their feelings without constant judgment about them.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#973

Post by dang »

paulpauper wrote: post #382

I don't think it's a tragedy. The overly dramatic media and pundits get this all wrong in labeling it such. Young people are simply responding to incentives to live at home longer. Living expenses keep going up relative to inflation and wages, such as home prices, rent, insurance, etc. Living at home is a good way save money, even for the employed. Family formation is expensive and fraught with risks such as divorce…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27477783. Just trying to prune the top-heaviest threads.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#974

Post by dang »

belorn wrote: post #269

What are the things that motivates them, and what do they themselves want to do in life? I ask this because much of the undertone in the article and in this thread is about the failure of meeting the gender role expectations that are put on young men. Do they have a job and a car? Have they studied hard so they can get a good job in order to support a wife and kid? Culture in the last several decades have hammered do…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27477783. (Just trying to prune the top-heaviest threads.)

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#975

Post by dang »

This thread got over 1100 comments, many of which are based in personal experience and are thoughtful. Others, alas, are flamewar dreck, but I hope everyone reading a forum like this knows how to step over stuff like that.

HN threads are still paginated, so if you want to read them all you'll need to click More at the bottom of the page, or like this:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27473199&p=1

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27473199&p=2

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27473199&p=3

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27473199&p=4

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27473199&p=5

(Comments like this will go away when we turn off pagination. Sorry for the annoyance.)

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#976

Post by berniemadoff69 »

watwut wrote: post #832
berniemadoff69 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would your tune be any different if they were 34, staying at home all day playing video games, but somehow earning half a million dollars a year doing some "gamer" Twitch/Patreon/YouTube/influencer streaming schtick? Or, better yet, playing video games all day, but magically manage to make obscene amounts of money "trading cryptocoins" . Would their lifestyles suddenly become acceptable to you, simply because they ar…

The people you talk about work awful lot and burn out. Attracting and keeping audience is hard, just playing wont make people watch it regularly. You are entertainer there. And you constantly deal with harassement and bs.

Thanks for this answer - I respect your opinion and it's made me rethink my statement a bit.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#977

Post by souprock »

JPKab wrote: post #911
tuatoru wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "is it a cause or a symptom?" is a valid question and deserves serious thought. Upvoted. I worried about my own son playing video games incessantly through his teens and twenties, but now at 28 he has been holding down a stable job for a year and I have got good reports from his employer. He's still a loner IRL though. Would I worry so much if he were a gym rat or ultramarathoner-- an "exercise addict"? Good…

I am also a father and I had to stomp out my son's video game addiction. Frankly I don't think it's a major victory for a 28-year-old to have been gainfully employed for a year and still be a loner. Being an introvert is one thing but not having a social network around you especially in your twenties is a very bad sign. Too often people think that because their kid is introverted they shouldn't be alarmed by them not…

I'm trying to stomp out my son's video game addiction right now. The trouble is that online classes require a web browser, and there are lots of web games.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#978

Post by snypher »

ransom1538 wrote: post #549
grawprog wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked a bunch of jobs over the years where i've ended up being in the homes of a lot of middle class - upper class people, not that it doesn't happen with working class people too, but anyway a common thing i would see was young men my own age or older living at home with their parents, not employed. I remember one lady in particular tried desperately to see if we could get her son a job. He'd taken a crane ope…

Our neighbors kid doesn't work, in early twenties, lives with mother. I was trying to sell my house and needed tons of lawn work. I was able to get a quote for $650 which seemed high. So I did what I would have wanted. I walked over to the neighbor kid and asked "Would you take $550 to fix up our lawn?". He looked at me like I was an alien. He said one word, "no", then awkwardly walked away. I would have killed to ge…

It seems like an excessive pay, so maybe he thought it would be a lot of work. Have you had interactions with him before? He might have just not wanted to engage with you

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#979

Post by souprock »

throwaway306744 wrote: post #453
tetranomiga wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He said, in a time of record unemployment and low wages that are impossible to live off of. Almost like there are other factors at play here than just men being lazy. HN loves to forget that not everybody can be a FAANG employee or has the desire to sit in front of a computer writing code their whole lives.

I'm a male FAANG employee in my 30's living with my parents. It's nice. My dad makes us lunches, my mom cooks dinners, and I do yardwork. My girlfriend lives a few miles away with her parents, who are great. We regularly eat with one family or the other, and we often sleep together at one house or the other. We use the family cars. Except for the job, we'd be considered failures for this nice life.

It seems like you're not really starting adult life, and you're running out of years to do so. I started my 30's with 3 kids already, and ended my 30's with 9 kids. I bought a house. That house is my responsibility, without even an HOA. I don't have to ask mom for anything. I don't need parental permission. I got to pick the car I wanted to buy. If I feel like painting the house cyan or parking my car on the lawn, I can do so.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#980

Post by sinsterizme »

achillesheels wrote: post #913
sinsterizme wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly can’t tell if I’m too stupid to decipher this comment or if this is incredibly poorly written

How knowledgeable are you of the biological phenomenon of homeostasis as it applies to humans?

I know of the concept but nothing specific. Is this related to your comment?
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