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Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

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Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#971

Post by astura »

simplerman wrote: post #849
CodeGlitch wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing up in the 80's (UK) as a Roman Catholic, I remember the services being full on Sunday mornings. Not been since I left home at 18, because frankly I stopped believing in God the same time I stopped believing in Father Christmas (7?). The only reason I went was to make my parents happy. Now I'm in my 40's I do wonder if the lack of religion in society is leading us to a bad place. We know from numerous studies…

> In modern no-religion societies, where is the pull for good old family values? What we are seeing is better rights and fairness for individuals (same-sex marriage, etc) but is that good for society as a whole? I understand where you are coming from, I struggle with my atheism/beliefs too. But without doubt, this is good for society. Think about it, we had slavery because bible and other religions, approved of slave…

In my mom's case it was religion that directly caused an incredibly toxic family life. God said have a massive amount of kids you have zero ability to care for, birth control is a sin and God will magically take care of the kids, so just keep pushing them out.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#972

Post by yibg »

baryphonic wrote: post #195
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #46

Having the Church community while growing up was great. But the fact that admission to this community required total philosophical adherence is just bizarre. Frankly, growing up in the church left me with a broken moral code. It was only once I left it in my teens and had to work things out for myself that I feel like I could properly ground myself ethically. Having a moral system imposed on you can do that.

> Frankly, growing up in the church left me with a broken moral code. It was only once I left it in my teens and had to work things out for myself that I feel like I could properly ground myself ethically. Having a moral system imposed on you can do that. How did you derive your moral code yourself? Any action you take has side effects in the outside world, and so some minimal, common understanding of morality is nec…

Moral code is at least partially cultural. Somethings are consider immoral in some cultures while not in others. Although the major ones seem pretty aligned.

However religion isn’t needed for it, as different people from different religious backgrounds more or less got to the same place.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#973

Post by yibg »

As someone that grew up non religious I’m genuinely bewildered at the concept of (especially the Christian) God. I understand the sense of community and potential psychological benefits of “knowing”.

But in terms of truth seeking, how can something that has never been demonstrated and without any evidence be so widely believed? We have no evidence for the existence of any God, let alone any specific God. Yet so many people claim to know the will and desires of this being.

For the believers, why do you believe?

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#974

Post by sanedigital »

tenacious_tuna wrote: post #266
bopbeepboop wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would that be? I’ve encountered this claim more often than I’ve encountered actual fundamentalist churches I think are making any sort of strong claim about the world. So I’m curious to hear what people think is wrong.

> What would that be? not OP, but I would presume "the claim" is that (a) there is a God, (b) the church knows which one, and (c) they know what he wants. For comparison, I (atheist) normally state my position as "There is insufficient evidence to conclude there is a God," so any statement about there being any god, or about what influence they should/do have on our lives I treat as a "claim," which requires supporti…

At the risk of being pedantic, I believe that’s more Agnostic than Atheist. Your statement allows for a God to exist, and even infers that you’re willing to believe in them given sufficient evidence.

While the whole atheist-agnostic thing is more of a continuum than not, I think the line is whether you believe there is no God or whether you don’t believe there is one. It might seem pedantic but I do think it’s an important distinction.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#975

Post by stephenr »

CodeGlitch wrote: post #607
stephenr wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where is the pull for good old family values? Whose family? Which values? This honestly just sounds like a “back in my day...” rant to be honest.

It did occur to me that perhaps people who weren't brought up in a traditional (mother+father) Christian family might not know what "good old family values" means. Not meaning to make an assumption about you of course.

I'm gonna defer to Todd Barry on this one:

> Hey man, you forgot to not do that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6w-zEfdB94&t=12s

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#976

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

legitster wrote: post #542

This misses the forest for the trees: Membership is down at organizations across the board - scouting, group athletics, Rotary clubs, unions, even things like PTAs and neighborhood associations and model train clubs. There is a society wide "apathy" event happening right under our noses. Maybe we're just seeing a new generation moving to new niche groups that aren't being seen yet. But it seems that technology is doi…

Hard to tell if that's permanent; it may be a temporary thing due to COVID, people being afraid of gatherings. Is that possible? Probably only part of the picture: the poll sited elsewhere in this thread says the trend goes on for quite some time: https://news.gallup.com/poll/341963/church-membership-falls-...

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#977

Post by ragazzina »

lootsauce wrote: post #606

“Because here's something else that's weird but true: in the day-to day trenches of adult life, there is actually no such thing as atheism. There is no such thing as not worshipping. Everybody worships. The only choice we get is what to worship. And the compelling reason for maybe choosing some sort of god or spiritual-type thing to worship—be it JC or Allah, be it YHWH or the Wiccan Mother Goddess, or the Four Noble…

>And when time and age start showing, you will die a million deaths before they finally grieve you.

What does he actually say instead of grieve? I have never been able to recognize the word. Plant?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI after 18:40.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#978

Post by CodeGlitch »

sammalloy wrote: post #908
CodeGlitch wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing up in the 80's (UK) as a Roman Catholic, I remember the services being full on Sunday mornings. Not been since I left home at 18, because frankly I stopped believing in God the same time I stopped believing in Father Christmas (7?). The only reason I went was to make my parents happy. Now I'm in my 40's I do wonder if the lack of religion in society is leading us to a bad place. We know from numerous studies…

> I do wonder if the lack of religion in society is leading us to a bad place With respect, this is a popular right-wing talking point that has been repeated since the 1970s whenever the US is on the precipice of making real progress in terms of equity and rights. I'm surprised to see this claim here, as I would have thought the previous four years of the Trump admin, and the disastrous influence of evangelicals on p…

Yes you make some good points - although very US-focused so can't comment too much on that as I've only lived in the UK.

The whole Christian = right-wing is news to me - again coming from the UK it's not seen like that at all.

> The rise of Christian nationalism, often aggressive and violent in nature, and the loss of basic governance and services for most Americans.

Again - news to me. Do you have examples here?

I should add that I'm not religious at all, and don't think a Iran-style religious state is a good thing for anyone. My main point was that we have lost something without religion, and the woke-ideology has replaced some of that in a very bad way.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#979

Post by [deleted] »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #752
ScaredOfDying wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any advice/resources for coming to terms with death as a non-believer? I've had existential dread for as long as I remember, but it's gotten far worse as I've slowly lost what faith I had over the years. There's a certain irony in being so scared of death that it ruins your life.

“Man is like a dog tied to a moving wagon. If the dog refuses to run along with the wagon he will be dragged by it, yet the choice remains his: to run or be dragged.” We’re all default dead in the long run, make the most of what time you have with whatever brings you joy and happiness. Choose to run.

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