This man dared to challenge 50+ years of post-modern indoctrination. The result is hardly surprising. I salute his bravery though. Look forward to his discussion with Jordan Peterson. https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/89490930975844352...
Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
971–980 of 1001 posts
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#972Will Google also fire employees who 1) publicly support him in internal discussion, or 2) privately support him?
Based on the reasoning of Google's excutives, I don't see why they would not do 1 or 2.
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#973a few scientists chime in:
https://archive.is/z6xxP#selection-391.260-391.683
I for one take their words over Yonatan Zunger in this - as this is after all, their field of expertise. Zunger may be great in many things, but behavioural science, evolutionary psychology and psychology in general are i'm fairly certain not fields where he holds any achievements.
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#974Dare I say, but people should be employed for their abilities not their gender, race or value to some checklist. Those who develop greater abilities through study should find greater opportunities in work, regardless of their gender, race, sexual orientation or negative score on some diversity checklist.
one would think right...
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#975The best explanation of why he was going to be fired and why that was the right thing to do (that I read) came from Yonatan Zunger, who had recently left a Human Resources position at Google; especially his third point, in the following post on Medium: https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-man... In many way, it was not an unfamiliar sort of rant for the internet, and I was struck by the author's e…
A slight correction: Yonatan wasn't in Human Resources, he was a very senior and well-respected long-time software engineer and architect.
Note that his main accomplishment was the wildly successful Google+.
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#976Every time I read about women in tech discrimination problem I keep wondering: is it supposed to be specific to US or global? Are there any countries that could serve as an counter-example? That is, has numerical parity between men and women in tech ever been achieved without implementing targeted diversity policies? It would be great to have an example. "Look at country X! Their society doesn't discriminate based on…
>Are there any countries that could serve as an counter-example? That is, has numerical parity between men and women in tech ever been achieved without implementing targeted diversity policies? As far as I know in poor unequal societies women go more to STEM careers[1]. I'd think that's because you don't have the luxury to choose to study something that won't pay well after your parents made the effort to put you thr…
And the opposite seems to also hold
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#977A relevant kid's story: The Racist Tree By Alexander Blechman Once upon a time, there was a racist tree. Seriously, you are going to hate this tree. High on a hill overlooking the town, the racist tree grew where the grass was half clover. Children would visit during the sunlit hours and ask for apples, and the racist tree would shake its branches and drop the delicious red fruit that gleamed without being polished.…
I always preferred the story of the gay tree, myself.
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#978People can't seem to summarize his argument without getting much of it grossly wrong, because his manifesto was a haphazard collection of good points, bad points, good arguments, lousy arguments, misrepresentations of others' views, and unstated implications. A perfect recipe for people to argue past each other about it. It's worth remembering that one of his conclusions was to end or replace gender-based diversity p…
> If gender-based diversity programs are responsible for qualified women getting jobs that they otherwise wouldn't have gotten due to bias, then the lack of that program means those women wouldn't have gotten those jobs. This is a double sword thing. With the program you might hire more qualified women, but also more less qualified women and you might prevent of hiring more qualified men. Because you have to hire wom…
Why do you assume the men being hired are more qualified than the women who were passed over?
The hiring process is subjective, not fair. There is extensive evidence that just having a name that is assumed to be female makes a candidate less likely to get hired. Without diversity programs, less qualified men are hired over more qualified women, producing the skewed results we observe.
Women are on average more qualified than the men in the same jobs they hold because of these social forces, so your assumptions make you particularly systematically wrong.
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#979People can't seem to summarize his argument without getting much of it grossly wrong, because his manifesto was a haphazard collection of good points, bad points, good arguments, lousy arguments, misrepresentations of others' views, and unstated implications. A perfect recipe for people to argue past each other about it. It's worth remembering that one of his conclusions was to end or replace gender-based diversity p…
He only thought/suggested that, though. He's being punished for his thoughts.
Once you say it out loud, it's not being punished for thoughts anymore. Speaking is an action.
As this thread shows, if he'd just kept his whiny assumptions about women's innate incompetence as engineers to himself he would have been able to remain happily employed in a cushy job.
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#980People can't seem to summarize his argument without getting much of it grossly wrong, because his manifesto was a haphazard collection of good points, bad points, good arguments, lousy arguments, misrepresentations of others' views, and unstated implications. A perfect recipe for people to argue past each other about it. It's worth remembering that one of his conclusions was to end or replace gender-based diversity p…
> If gender-based diversity programs are responsible for qualified women getting jobs that they otherwise wouldn't have gotten due to bias But is the bias substantiated so that diversity hiring tracks it? Do the men who lose out to diversity candidates, the same that are benefiting from bias (as individuals, not "men, as a group")? Isn't this like saying "Jailing innocent men is a fair price to ensure the guilty don'…
Yes, that's what "systematic bias" means. In actual observational studies, the men who are excluded from positions by gender quotas are less competent than the women who replace them: http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/businessreview/2017/03/13/gender-quot...
This is why there is such intense reactions against correcting for bias: men with imposter syndrome or who are actually incompetent are afraid that they wouldn't be able to compete if the system wasn't so heavily skewed in their favor.