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14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

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Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#971

Post by mikeash »

exodust wrote: post #961
ajross wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> bringing cases packed with electronics [...] adds up to trouble Yeah, seriously. Gotta watch those non-ROHS solder compounds hobbyists like to use. Also, through-hole pins can be sharp and scratchy. This is part of the ridiculous ignorance that has a lot of us upset. At what point did a printed circuit board outside an enclosure become a "weapon"? Are the decision makers in our society (and exodust here) really so…

It wasn't just a circuit board. The whole issue is around it looking like a 'hoax suitcase bomb'. Check google images for the endless list of suitcase bombs. I don't think at any point anyone actually thought it was a threat. The school over-reacted, but they though he deliberately was making something look like a suitcase bomb. Of course, he's not going to admit that is he. Just an innocent 14yo, who would never mak…

This "suitcase" is about 17cm wide. You can measure it from your picture using the conveniently-located power plug, whose prongs will be 12.7mm apart. If this kid wanted to make something that looked like a suitcase, surely he would use something big enough to actually hold at least one suit?

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#972

Post by mikeash »

DanBC wrote: post #965
exodust wrote: post #964

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you're saying and don't disagree. I tried to provide a balance point to this discussion, mainly due to the fact that packing the clock into the suitcase wasn't smart (even for a 14yo). Google 'suitcase bomb' and you'll get endless results. Google 'Arduino enclosure bomb" and you won't get much. I'm not convinced the kid didn't know it was looking like something from a movie, and I think he was aiming for t…

It's not a suitcase. It's a small pencil case. A bit biggerthan an Altoids tin. The photo is misleading. There's a battery connector that gives some scale.

The power plug is an even better indicator, since it's pretty much flat. Given the prongs are 12.7mm apart, that makes the whole case about 17cm wide. You could literally fit it in your pocket.

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#973

Post by efa »

mikeash wrote: post #801
efa wrote: post #769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> den of trigger-happy bigot-hunters Yep, that's the US today. And of course Obama doesn't waste a second to exacerbate the situation by vilifying the school/policeman/whatever. It's amazing how in 5 minutes everyone knows all the facts and concludes these school officials are racist xenophobic knuckle-draggers.

Where did Obama do that? The only comment from him I've seen was his tweet that just said, "Cool clock, Ahmed. Want to bring it to the White House? We should inspire more kids like you to like science. It's what makes America great."

As a leader who is supposed to be about bringing people together and not being divisive, he had an opportunity here. Fine to complement the kid. But he could also have thrown in a "in this time we know school administrators have to be vigilant, they have a tough job, we're all in this together, whatever". Something like that. But his tweet indirectly says this kid is great and the school admins are the bad guys. I just wish for once he could do something to calm a situation instead of throwing gasoline on a fire.

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#974

Post by Alupis »

nadams wrote: post #952
Alupis wrote: post #810

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even using your math: ~$50 per year per computer * 5,000 computers = $250,000 in additional power consumption per year He ran this scheme for 9 years: $250,000 per year * 9 years = $2,250,000 total additional electricity costs No matter what way you run the math, he blew millions of the school district's budget.

> No matter what way you run the math, he blew millions of the school district's budget. And the school blew millions by not turning off the computers when not in use. Power management is built into Windows - this can easily be done/managed with group policy. > $250,000 per year * 9 years = $2,250,000 total additional electricity costs This is all assuming he went around in a ski mask before he left every day and tur…

He was the IT guy, so for all we know (and can likely safely assume) he had a GPO to not turn off the systems, but instead schedule this app to run after students left for the day.

I do believe somewhere someone stated the district had wanted the systems put to sleep (not turned off) and believed it was happening.

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#975

Post by mikeash »

efa wrote: post #973
mikeash wrote: post #801

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did Obama do that? The only comment from him I've seen was his tweet that just said, "Cool clock, Ahmed. Want to bring it to the White House? We should inspire more kids like you to like science. It's what makes America great."

As a leader who is supposed to be about bringing people together and not being divisive, he had an opportunity here. Fine to complement the kid. But he could also have thrown in a "in this time we know school administrators have to be vigilant, they have a tough job, we're all in this together, whatever". Something like that. But his tweet indirectly says this kid is great and the school admins are the bad guys. I ju…

So saying nothing at all about the administrations and police, not even mentioning that they exist, is "vilifying the school/policeman/whatever"?

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#976

Post by mikeash »

exodust wrote: post #963
dragonwriter wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But you can't deny that "radicalization of young Muslims" isn't a thing these days. Radicalization of young Muslims is among the reasons why acts based on bias against young Muslims by authority figures in society is especially problematic, as those acts contribute rather directly to such radicalization, and directly serve the propaganda interests of those actively seeking such radicalization. This would be problem…

So you don't think it's possible that authority figures can initiate acts based on statistics ? On research, on scientific data? Or must their motivations always be grounded in bias, unfair discrimination, misguided old-fashioned racial profiling? The point I was making about young Muslims - I wish it weren't true. But it is true. Arresting 14yo kids isn't a solution, but neither is patronizingly inviting him and his…

OK, what are the relevant statistics, research, and scientific data? What is the scientifically-determined probability at the time that this kid actually built a bomb, or was at least trying to scare people with a lookalike?

"I'd love watch the video of him checking into whitehouse security with his suitcase clock..."

It will probably be quite boring, because unlike paranoid local Texas policemen, the Secret Service knows what a bomb actually looks like.

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#977

Post by efa »

mikeash wrote: post #975
efa wrote: post #973

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a leader who is supposed to be about bringing people together and not being divisive, he had an opportunity here. Fine to complement the kid. But he could also have thrown in a "in this time we know school administrators have to be vigilant, they have a tough job, we're all in this together, whatever". Something like that. But his tweet indirectly says this kid is great and the school admins are the bad guys. I ju…

So saying nothing at all about the administrations and police, not even mentioning that they exist , is "vilifying the school/policeman/whatever"?

Yep. This is like two parents. One is scolding a child for doing something wrong. The other parent goes to the child and says, "come on, lets go to Chuck E Cheese". It's undermining the authority figure. How much do you think this kid will respect the administration/teachers at this schools after his visit to the White House where Obama reinforced how they were all horribly wrong?

All I'm really saying is he could have easily cooled the situation.

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#978

Post by mikeash »

efa wrote: post #977
mikeash wrote: post #975

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So saying nothing at all about the administrations and police, not even mentioning that they exist , is "vilifying the school/policeman/whatever"?

Yep. This is like two parents. One is scolding a child for doing something wrong. The other parent goes to the child and says, "come on, lets go to Chuck E Cheese". It's undermining the authority figure. How much do you think this kid will respect the administration/teachers at this schools after his visit to the White House where Obama reinforced how they were all horribly wrong? All I'm really saying is he could ha…

If it's like two parents, then one of them is abusive, and the other one is trying to gently steer the kid away from the abuser.

Sometimes authority figures need to be undermined. Doing so is not "vilifying" them, even if the abuser might see it that way.

Why does the situation need to be "cooled," exactly? There aren't any riots over this. The only person who was harmed in any way was the 14-year-old kid who was arrested and interrogated at length without a lawyer and without his parents. Why are you more concerned about the feelings of the people who did this than about him?

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#979

Post by 6stringmerc »

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #937
6stringmerc wrote: post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, no, they do freak out for paying taxes for education, and it's pretty obvious that the hostility increases with age and as the elderly rely on social welfare programs. They get out and vote. Traditionally they vote down any education funding, as a cohort. In my experience the people who claim the public schools are "broken" the loudest are the least qualified to make such an assessment. Also, public schools re…

"Saying that public schools are broken is essentially saying our basic local systems are broken, and that opens a whole new can of worms regarding inequality, poverty, and social priorities." Not necessarily.

Initiatives like No Child Left Behind would indicate that my statement is closer to reality than you might choose to believe.

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#980

Post by nmrm2 »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #969
nmrm2 wrote: post #967

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sports bring in revenue and academics do not. ?!?! In high schools in the US, academics are intimately linked to funding. Sports are not. I guarantee you no teacher or administrator gives a shit about how much money the Friday night concession stand is bringing in. It probably doesn't even cover the electricity bill for the flood lights. But they do all care a lot about test scores and other (mostly academically-re…

>or robotics team or programming competition team or chess club And yet these are rare and never given the same prestige that sports does. Being a member of many of those clubs will likely negatively impact your ability to socialize and learn social skills as you will be ostracized by the larger groups.

> And yet these are rare

They are too rare, which is why it's important for (even/especially childless) engineers to be actively involved in the after-school activities offered by surrounding schools.

> and never given the same prestige that sports does.

This might be true in some schools, but in every school I've worked with (which have included everything from blue collar suburb to pretty depressingly poor urban), academics are values much more than sports.

Kids who do well at sports get validation. And they should. Performing well in a competition -- any competition -- requires equal parts skill and dedication.

So why don't academics get the same sort of social validation from adults as sports?

It's worth remembering that the social validation is probably the only validation high school athletes will receive.

In contrast, most people assume that academics will be validated by scholarships, and that the intermediate social validation is therefore unnecessary. That painfully over-estimates the maturity of the typical high schooler (even a bright one), but it's a common mindset.

So it's not that academics isn't valued over sports; rather, it's more like the value of academic achievement is perceived to be self-evident and therefore doesn't require social validation, whereas for sports that's not so much the case.

> Being a member of many of those clubs will likely negatively impact your ability to socialize

That's not true at all! It will absolutely improve your ability to work on problems with a group. No one on a robotics team is going to ostracize someone because they are on a robotics team...

> as you will be ostracized by the larger groups.

Bullies are everywhere in life. Knowing how to live life and get work done in spite of bullying is an important skill.

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