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Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

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Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#961

Post by wpietri »

gcb0 wrote: post #792
wpietri wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting money behind Prop 8 helped strip a civil right from gay people. It's technically true that proves nothing about Eich's beliefs. Heck, maybe it was Eich's personal Opposite Day. But does it matter? Even the bible says, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning that it's reasonable to judge people by what they do. The pseudo-gotcha about tolerance is ridiculous, an accusation of hypocrisy based on a straw m…

heh. can't not appreciate the irony of defending public shaming someone because of a hint that he may be anti-gay rights ...with a bible quote.

Thanks. But it's not a hint. He helped strip gay Californians of a civil right. An action which he has neither repudiated nor apologized for.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#962

Post by zimpenfish »

pdabbadabba wrote: post #949
zimpenfish wrote: post #945

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It passed with 52% 6 years ago with an allegedly confusing ballot paper. You can't extrapolate from that to what might happen if you repeated the vote today.

I'm not saying it would easily pass again if a vote were held today. All I'm saying this establishes is that opposition to gay marriage is not, in the community at large, a fringe view.

...in 2008 according to a possibly confusing ballot paper.

You cannot in any way extrapolate from that vote 6 years ago to how things might be now. No sir, you cannot.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#963

Post by wpietri »

wwweston wrote: post #778
wpietri wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting money behind Prop 8 helped strip a civil right from gay people. It's technically true that proves nothing about Eich's beliefs. Heck, maybe it was Eich's personal Opposite Day. But does it matter? Even the bible says, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning that it's reasonable to judge people by what they do. The pseudo-gotcha about tolerance is ridiculous, an accusation of hypocrisy based on a straw m…

> Even the bible says, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning that it's reasonable to judge people by what they do. That's reasonable enough. On the other hand, it's selective at best to limit the applied focus to his donations. He's spent a lot of time/effort working at and building up Mozilla, a Mozilla that has an equitable/inclusive code of treatment, a Mozilla where by several LGBT accounts his co-workers…

Sure. And I hope people were weighing that. It definitely meant something to me.

But Eich promising to only work against gay people's civil rights in his off hours wouldn't strike me as enough if I were a Mozilla employee. It's not the kind of promise I'd fully trust.

Really, I feel for Eich. If I had to guess, he's somebody who grew up around a lot of religiously-driven intolerance of gay people. And, like many smart people, he used his smarts to compartmentalize one set of views from another. It must be heartbreaking to be forced to deal with those inconsistencies in the eye of the national media, and to handle it poorly enough that he ended up quitting something he started and believes in. I wish he had sorted this out years ago, but I hope this serves as an opportunity for him to do so soon.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#964

Post by blisterpeanuts »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #426
MrZongle2 wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First: thank you for responding, regardless of your up/down/no vote. But I disagree that his personal opinions were incompatible with Mozilla. They make software, Eich makes software. Mozilla has nothing to do with social activism. Well, at least, they didn't until now .

Mozilla explicitly states that one of it's goals is to foster an inclusive and diverse software community. In their position, where they do so much work related to community engagement, do you not see how the views of their CEO conflicting with their stated mission is a problem?

If they're inclusive and diverse, then they should welcome people with different political perspectives. This isn't about tolerance and inclusiveness. It's about satisfying an angry, vindictive segment of the population that demands a sacrifice. Whether morally right or not, they have stepped in some deep doo-doo, and offended a broad swath of Mozilla supporters.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#965

Post by blisterpeanuts »

drawkbox wrote: post #872

This is all wrong. Brendan was wrong, however others were wrong essentially forcing him out. I feel Mozilla will lose some in this, taking a few self-inflicted wounds because they are open and that is unfortunate. It is the reason CEOs are plastic. Part of Mozilla's culture is now throwing someone who helped build it up under the bus. Yes his personal beliefs may be dated on this one issue, lots of people are on the…

Definitely the wrong way to educate. It sends the wrong message. For a lot of people, it has exposed the ugly side of political correctness and the cowardice of the organization, that it would toss overboard one of its founders.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#967

Post by blisterpeanuts »

mhurron wrote: post #210
grn wrote: post #51

Personally I don't know what to think when organizations mix their core business (e.g. making a web browser) and politics (e.g. support for free speech). I'd like to see politics and business as separate as possible. What do you think?

A little difficult to do when part of what made the Mozilla Foundation what it is is supporting equality. It would be hard to see a Skinhead leading a Kosher brand for the same reason.

It would be hard to see a neo-Nazi appointed head of NAACP, too. Or a rabidly fundamentalist Baptist put in charge of Union of Reform Judaism.

But that's not what happened here. Eich is not an extremist. His views were well within the mainstream, at least 4 years ago when this proposition was on the ballot. Heck it passed with 7 million voters in favor. Had he voted yes but not donated that $1000, no one would have even found out. What a stupid thing to pillory someone over, with all the problems in the world.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#968

Post by jdotpz »

wpietri wrote: post #740
gfodor wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support legalizing gay marriage. But two things, first, supporting prop 8 does not mean you "believe a certain group of people don't deserve to live their lives like others." It means you don't believe that the government should recognize same sex marriages as marriages. There are a large gradient of views here, and on one extreme are the bigots who hate homosexuals and on the other there are people who simply have…

Putting money behind Prop 8 helped strip a civil right from gay people. It's technically true that proves nothing about Eich's beliefs. Heck, maybe it was Eich's personal Opposite Day. But does it matter? Even the bible says, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning that it's reasonable to judge people by what they do. The pseudo-gotcha about tolerance is ridiculous, an accusation of hypocrisy based on a straw m…

Perfectly said.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#969

Post by blisterpeanuts »

filmgirlcw wrote: post #550

What I still can't understand is how Eich was ever approved by the board to begin with. His qualifications aside, the very fact that this had already become public before and was clearly antithetical to the ethos of Mozilla's position as a company should have excluded him from ever getting the job. As CTO, people might have disagreed with his opinion, but it's hard to make a salient argument that he should be forced…

Slippery slope. No one should ever be "forced out" for having an opinion. If there are employees who feel he doesn't properly manage them or "represent" them or they feel he is "oppressing" them, well maybe they are the ones with the problem and should go work some place else, or just work harder to defend their rights during their off hours without bringing it into the workplace. There's no evidence that Eich was bringing it into the workplace. This whole thing is based on a contribution to a successful ballot question several years ago.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#970

Post by wpietri »

marvy wrote: post #873
wpietri wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting money behind Prop 8 helped strip a civil right from gay people. It's technically true that proves nothing about Eich's beliefs. Heck, maybe it was Eich's personal Opposite Day. But does it matter? Even the bible says, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning that it's reasonable to judge people by what they do. The pseudo-gotcha about tolerance is ridiculous, an accusation of hypocrisy based on a straw m…

Hey, if we're gonna go quoting that book, I believe there was something about throwing the first stone.

Oh, that's definitely a good bit. But that was in the context of a court, and a woman accused of adultery (with, of course, the guy not around).

If I were to apply that chapter to this situation, I think it would more be about Eich, a sinner like the rest of us, not using a court to punish people he things have transgressed his god's law.

I'd also note that story ends with, "Go and sin no more." Suggesting to me that forgiveness is bound up with a recognition of error and an attempt to reform. Which is something Eich hasn't yet done.

And indeed, I think that was Eich's way out of this. He could have declared, like a lot of Christians have, that hating on gay people is a sin, one he wanted no further part of. If he had actually apologized for injuring gay people, I think a lot of people could have, like the Pharisees, recognized that they too had made mistakes.

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