Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

theolivepress.es

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

961–970 of 1001 posts

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#961

Post by littlestymaar »

retired wrote: post #682
nicpottier wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think phone manufacturers will figure it out once it is a requirement. Was switching everyone to USB-C annoying for Apple? Sure. Are we in a better place because the EU forced it. You betcha. That's the point. I don't love everything the EU does (cookie banners!?) but this is one where I have confidence that the consumer will ultimately benefit. As others have noted, most people do not replace their phones every tw…

The EU did not force USB-C on the iPhone. Apple switched to USB-C years before it became mandatory.

Apple switched long after the Regulation was written by the Commission and handed to the European council. The fact that legislative process takes a long time (and that the EU always leave a long window to companies to comply) doesn't change the role of the EU here.

Apple was told that they wouldn't get the exemption they have had with micro-USB plugs this time, and they acted accordingly, diligently enough so that the regulation wouldn't disrupt their business.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#962

Post by lxgr »

jpfromlondon wrote: post #856
heavyset_go wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it's such a superior product that people want despite the tradeoffs, why don't they just fund a company to create such a phone? Why doesn't anyone? Because legislation is direct and gives better results to consumers. Thank god the EU standardized on USB-C. There's no reason to jump through extra hoops and rely on the whims of investors to do something good for the people.

>Thank god the EU standardized on USB-C Short term thinking, if anyone invents a significantly better connector the eu will lag a decade while they clear the red tape, it hampers innovation inside the bloc people who might otherwise be concocting their own improved connector.

> it hampers innovation inside the bloc people who might otherwise be concocting their own improved connector.

You know what, I'm absolutely fine with that.

I still remember when every single manufacturer had their own shitty 10-30 pin connector that effectively did the exact same thing: Transfer some current, analog audio, and some USB data. It was absolutely not worth the mutual incompatibility (you'd actually have to always carry your own charger and could not borrow one).

If some amazing new technology comes around that needs more than 240W charging or 80 Gbit/s data transfer to smartphones and can't be retrofitted into the USB-C form factor, let's take the time to change the law.

> if anyone invents a significantly better connector the eu will lag a decade while they clear the red tape

You seem to be misremembering how it actually played out: We didn't end up with the EU stranded on some standard, quite the opposite: The EU effectively forced Apple (the last non-negligible non-USB-C holdout) to switch to USB-C globally.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#963

Post by craftkiller »

snowwrestler wrote: post #944
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

People do forget what it was like. Device battery life was way shorter and the manufacturer was incentivized to keep it that way because it sold more batteries. Devices all had proprietary batteries. If I had 3 devices on me, I was carrying 3x extra batteries, one+ per device. My Nikon D1H required 5 huge proprietary batteries to cover a day of shooting sports. Plus a battery for my BlackBerry, plus batteries for my…

My headlamp is waterproof and it has a replaceable 18650 battery without needing to dab silicon(e?) on it. It is also rechargeable over USB type-c so I have both the option to replace the physical battery or plug it in to charge that battery.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#964

Post by windward »

bko wrote: post #660
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

The fact that pretty much no phones have a replaceable battery says something. And it doesn't mean that all manufacturers are somehow colluding with each. The market is very competitive and pretty much every manufacturer decided the trade offs are not worth the benefit. If Samsung or Xiaomi or Google could sell you a better phone with a replaceable battery, they would. But everyone came to the conclusion that the tra…

Why do you want us to think you don't know what a negative externality is? Do you usually find that you benefit from people thinking you're unworldly?

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#965

Post by lxgr »

chromacity wrote: post #796
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

Phones don't have removable batteries mostly because of the desire to make the device as thin as possible. The battery is just a delicate, flexible pouch that can easily be damaged and catch fire if removed from the phone and carried around. To make it safe, you'd need to add a hard shell, which would probably make the device 2 mm thicker or so. As to why we want to make phones as thin as possible... I don't know, bu…

You're thinking about "hot swappable" batteries, but the EU is only mandating user-replaceable batteries, which can even require specialized tools.

I don't think there's any requirement to make the batteries themselves safe to throw into a backpack where they might be punctured.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#966

Post by lxgr »

zbrozek wrote: post #217
proee wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could be "fixed" right now by a software update that limits the maximum charge level to 80% of capacity. However, this comes at the cost of how many minutes of runtime your phone can operate. So manufactures might just responds to this by making your phone heavier with a bigger battery that is being under utilized.

This sounds great. I would've loved to have set my phone to charge up to only 60% or 80% of its design capacity to reduce wear. I do this on my laptop.

Anecdata, but I did this on my iPhone, and it did absolutely nothing for battery longevity compared to charging to 100% with "optimized charging" (which keeps it at 80% for as long as possible when charging overnight).

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#967

Post by numpad0 »

snowwrestler wrote: post #944
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

People do forget what it was like. Device battery life was way shorter and the manufacturer was incentivized to keep it that way because it sold more batteries. Devices all had proprietary batteries. If I had 3 devices on me, I was carrying 3x extra batteries, one+ per device. My Nikon D1H required 5 huge proprietary batteries to cover a day of shooting sports. Plus a battery for my BlackBerry, plus batteries for my…

> My Canon waterproof camera came with a tube of silicon I had to dab on the battery compartment gasket

And those devices are MORE water resistant than most phones. The grease is to improve ingress protection beyond what's possible with double sided tapes used in "waterproof" phones. And the manuals for that gear should mention a retention period of x hours under y depth counting down from the moment the housing was closed.

Contrast to that, waterproof ratings for most glued-shut waterproof phones are invalid after purchase. Out of package, out of spec. Most manufacturers don't honor warranties for water damages for waterproof phone, and very few offer requisite gasket maintenance to retain waterproof ratings.

Apple doesn't have a recertification option even for battery replacement at Apple Store. Do ANY service and it's invalid. Not waterproof even in THEIR hands. Frankly their terms is one of the most egregious.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#969

Post by lxgr »

treebeard901 wrote: post #968

Being able to remove your phone battery also stops all tracking and surveillance for that device. If that sort of thing matters to you.

Which tracking and surveillance stays on on a device shut down but the battery not removed?

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#970

Post by jmholla »

snowwrestler wrote: post #944
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

People do forget what it was like. Device battery life was way shorter and the manufacturer was incentivized to keep it that way because it sold more batteries. Devices all had proprietary batteries. If I had 3 devices on me, I was carrying 3x extra batteries, one+ per device. My Nikon D1H required 5 huge proprietary batteries to cover a day of shooting sports. Plus a battery for my BlackBerry, plus batteries for my…

Or device battery life was shorter because we hadn't developed better battery technology or better power management

You talk about the misaligned incentives of replaceable batteries but fail to point out the incentive built-in batteries: need to replace a battery, buy a whole new device.

Post reply on HN