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Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

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Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#961

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carry an old used iPhone, powered off with no SIM, and treat it as a black box hardware token that you turn on only for these uses. You can tether it via wifi through your “real” freedom phone.

Your freedom phone will not be on your carrier's device allowlist.

I've used a Pinephone on 2 diffrent carriers for at least months each already.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#962
The measures seem a lot less restrictive than I expected. 24h wait time is nothing if you suppress your ego, developer options is already the first thing I enable, an open adb channel is and will be a constant choice and the one-time-forever option a neat convenience. They could kill user experience for all but it's more a friction and not a restriction.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#963
post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what's your solution to combat scammers?

Do you think regular desktop computer should be locked down like this too? Scammers can also tell people to run Windows programs. Should that be banned too? I'm fine with an opt-in lock-down feature so people can do it for their parents/grandparents/children. Also, just let people get used to it. People will get burned, then tell their friends and they will then know not to simply follow what a stranger guides them t…

Exactly. There's a sucker born every minute. I'm not saying people deserve to be taken advantage of. The reality is that there will always be people who can be lead off a cliff with minimal effort. There will always be people who believe that a guy with a thick Indian accent and broken English is a representative of Microsoft and that he can fix their computer in exchange for gift card codes. There comes a point where society sacrifices too much under the pretense of protecting the gullible. Prevent people from using technology at all and they'll go back to buying actual snake oil.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#964
post #87

At this point I'm convinced that there's something deeply wrong with how our society treats technology. Ruining Android for everyone to try to maybe help some rather technologically-hopeless groups of people is the wrong solution. It's unsustainable in the long run. Also, the last thing this world needs right now is even more centralization of power. Especially around yet another US company. People who are unwilling…

Could the technophobes please just buy different smartphones? If certain people want to opt in to locked down devices, I think that's okay. But please give me a device that lets me do whatever I want. (And still lets me participate in modern society—I can't live with a Linux phone). Apple's argument for locking down the iPhone but not the Mac has always been some variation of "Mac users are professionals and iPhones…

> Apple's argument for locking down the iPhone but not the Mac has always been some variation of "Mac users are professionals and iPhones are for everyone."

That argument no longer holds water with the release of the Macbook Neo and the associated Tiktok advertising campaign [1].

[1] https://www.tiktok.com/@apple

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#966
post #87

At this point I'm convinced that there's something deeply wrong with how our society treats technology. Ruining Android for everyone to try to maybe help some rather technologically-hopeless groups of people is the wrong solution. It's unsustainable in the long run. Also, the last thing this world needs right now is even more centralization of power. Especially around yet another US company. People who are unwilling…

Yellowstone rangers taught us that building an effective anti-bear trash container is impossible because the top 10% of bears are smarter than the bottom 10% of tourists.

They obviously didn't teach us that, because it isn't true. It's trivial to provide a container that can only be opened by following instructions that a human can understand and a bear can't.

That container won't work to stop bears from having access to trash, because tourists have the alternative of just throwing their trash on the ground, but being unwilling to bother using a bear-safe container is a very different thing from being unable to.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#967

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>- Must enable developer mode -- some apps (e.g., banking apps) will refuse to operate and such when developer mode is on, and so if you depend on such apps, I guess you just can't sideload? Hi, I'm the community engagement manager @ Android. It's my understanding that you don't have to keep developer options enabled after you enable the advanced flow. Once you make the change on your device, it's enabled. If you tur…

Why don’t you create an option to bypass this whole thing permanently on adb then? You can even add your 24h delay. I’m not convinced this is really to protect users from being hurt by scammers, it is really about protecting the users from doing what hurts your company interests.

>Why don’t you create an option to bypass this whole thing permanently on adb then? You can even add your 24h delay.

When you enable the advanced flow and choose the 'indefinite' option, that allows you to install unregistered apps 'permanently', which is effectively what you're asking for, no?

(I've gotten questions on whether this setting can be restored after a factory reset or when setting up a new device - I'll have to get back to you on that if you're wondering.)

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#968

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>- Must enable developer mode -- some apps (e.g., banking apps) will refuse to operate and such when developer mode is on, and so if you depend on such apps, I guess you just can't sideload? Hi, I'm the community engagement manager @ Android. It's my understanding that you don't have to keep developer options enabled after you enable the advanced flow. Once you make the change on your device, it's enabled. If you tur…

Will third party apps like bank apps be able to detect whether advanced mode is enabled or not, like how they currently detect if developer options is enabled?

That I'm not currently sure of.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#969

Welp, I guess my current Android phone will be my last one. At least half of the apps I use on a daily basis come from f-droid. This enforced 24-hour wait is simply not acceptable. Android has always been a far inferior overall user experience compared to iPhone. Android's _only_ saving grace was that I could put my own third-party open-source apps on it. There is nothing left keeping me on Android now. I'll probably…

If it helps, the 24-hour wait is a one-time process. You do it once, click the toggle to allow installing unregistered apps indefinitely, and then install whatever you want. You can even turn off developer options afterwards, per my understanding, and it won't impact your ability to install unregistered apps.

Is the next prioritized epic to disable 24 hour wait for undesirable apks?

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#970

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I worry as things get more and more locked down that those options won't work with a lot of apps I am increasingly interested in a dual-prong approach of building a parallel world of OSS apps, platforms, etc, plus an adversarial inter-op project for duping and wrapping apps/services from the commercial/normie world. We have some solid bases with Android/Graphene, Linux more broadly, wine, and Android VMs like Waydr…

Yeah, I do hope that an "inter-op" idea can be possible, otherwise anyone who doesn't want to join the duopoly fully will slowly be unable to interact with more and more aspects of commerce, government, etc. I guess the GrapheneOS method of integrating Play Services but keeping the user in control (e.g., being able to block Play apps' internet connections) is something like that, but ultimately it's controlled by Goo…

I don't think Graphene quite embodies the "adversarial" aspect I'm talking about. They explicitly don't do Play Integrity spoofing, even though they can, because they're committed to the more political avenue of convincing banks and such to use an alternate non-Google attestation framework. It's admirable, but I expect they'll lose considering the vast disparity in resources and power between them and their ideological enemies. I like the idea of committing more energy to the cat and mouse game of cracking apps and spoofing checks at this point.
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