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The MacBook Neo

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Re: The MacBook Neo

#961

Post by qingcharles »

matthewfcarlson wrote: post #536
saagarjha wrote: post #224

> The Neo doesn’t have a hardware indicator light for the camera. The indication for “camera in use” is only in the menu bar. There’s a privacy/security implication for this omission. According to Apple, the hardware indicator light for camera-in-use on MacBooks, iPhones, and iPads cannot be circumvented by software. If the camera is on, that light comes on, and no software can disable it. Because the Neo’s only came…

There is a ton of fascinating work to make the "software" camera in use indicator just as secure if not more secure than an LED attached to the power lines of the camera. Apple hasn't publicly talked about it much but here are two sources that aren't terrible. https://arxiv.org/abs/2510.09272 https://randomaugustine.medium.com/on-apple-exclaves-d683a2c... https://daringfireball.net/linked/2025/03/19/on-apple-exclav..…

I'm pretty sure the Apple dev who was tasked with securing the older hardware "tally lamps" is on HN somewhere -- I seem to remember him posting about it. (is it you?)

I used to know a guy, about 15 years ago, who made his money exclusively through buying up laptops and hacking the tally lamp code (to stop it activating) one-by-one and selling the code directly to 3LAs. It was really good money.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#962

Post by sbinnee »

cannolicannon wrote: post #254
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #31

IMO the consumer PC industry is near an existential crisis. The big players are just awful at marketing; too many SKUs and models - it takes a paragraph to figure out how 2 Dell laptops from the same release year differ. The exact same specs will be in two different chassis designs. Additionally, you can’t count on the basic being correct. It takes a hour of research to know if the trackpad is not-awful, keyboard doe…

The big players are just awful at marketing; too many SKUs and models - it takes a paragraph to figure out how 2 Dell laptops from the same release year differ. Just hired a new colleague who prefers Windows. Dell seemed like a reasonable option for a good laptop. Here is Dell's current lineup: - Dell Laptop (with 14, 15, 16 inch variants) - Dell Plus (with 14, 15, and 16 inch variants) - Dell XPS (with 13, 14, and 1…

My first laptop was xps 13 released in 2016, I think. I am still using it with linux installed. It’s a solid laptop. Good display, good port selection, good keyboard, even trackpad is not bad. It survived my long graduate degrees and survived covid when I was using it full time (mostly ssh though). I swapped the battery two times and battery life is not bad with minimal linux setup. What’s surprising the most to me is that it was just 900 usd.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#963

Post by Schmerika »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #597
Schmerika wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be surprised if I told you that $600 is slightly under 11 days of the average rent [0]? 0 - https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/

Are you comparing 11 days of utility vs 5+ years worth?

I am comparing two things which cost the same. In a discussion about pricing.

If your point was that it's crazy that 11 days of rent costs the same as a mid-range laptop, I completely agree. That's where we're at though.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#964

Post by barelysapient »

cannolicannon wrote: post #254
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #31

IMO the consumer PC industry is near an existential crisis. The big players are just awful at marketing; too many SKUs and models - it takes a paragraph to figure out how 2 Dell laptops from the same release year differ. The exact same specs will be in two different chassis designs. Additionally, you can’t count on the basic being correct. It takes a hour of research to know if the trackpad is not-awful, keyboard doe…

The big players are just awful at marketing; too many SKUs and models - it takes a paragraph to figure out how 2 Dell laptops from the same release year differ. Just hired a new colleague who prefers Windows. Dell seemed like a reasonable option for a good laptop. Here is Dell's current lineup: - Dell Laptop (with 14, 15, 16 inch variants) - Dell Plus (with 14, 15, and 16 inch variants) - Dell XPS (with 13, 14, and 1…

I had the same experience looking at thinkpads a few years ago. I finally just gave up and bought a macbook.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#965

Post by 6thbit »

saagarjha wrote: post #224

> The Neo doesn’t have a hardware indicator light for the camera. The indication for “camera in use” is only in the menu bar. There’s a privacy/security implication for this omission. According to Apple, the hardware indicator light for camera-in-use on MacBooks, iPhones, and iPads cannot be circumvented by software. If the camera is on, that light comes on, and no software can disable it. Because the Neo’s only came…

Huh. I hadn't digested the iphone indicator was also software based only.

But it's not like hardware indicators are foolprof, even apple has suffered hardware based circunvent via firmware: https://appleinsider.com/articles/13/12/18/researchers-find-...

I guess for Neos it's back to the good old postit.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#966

Post by foldr »

needSomeCoffee wrote: post #616
ksec wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>(then the M1 wins handily). How do you came to this conclusion when both are passingly cooled and A19 Pro is faster. Not to mention AV1 and other newer codec hardware accelerator and NPU / GPU improvements. Also remember M1 MBA is may be Walmart and US only. Around the world most dont even get a chance to buy M1 at $599. The display dont have P3 but is actually brighter than M1 400 nits. Not sure how Keyboard is wor…

"...handily...". Apple set the power limit for the A19 at 4 watts. The M1 does not have this limit. So in all tests using processes that tax the CPU, the M1 wins. Apple ignored the greater thermal cooling available with the new case. The A19 would beat the M1 if Apple did not do this. But no one really cares cause... it is Apple. The other points re: Walmart are valid. However, it goes to the point that Apple could s…

This is most likely for battery life. The Neo has a smaller and cheaper battery, so if you didn't limit the power somewhat you'd burn through it too fast.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#967

Post by nielsbot »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #31

IMO the consumer PC industry is near an existential crisis. The big players are just awful at marketing; too many SKUs and models - it takes a paragraph to figure out how 2 Dell laptops from the same release year differ. The exact same specs will be in two different chassis designs. Additionally, you can’t count on the basic being correct. It takes a hour of research to know if the trackpad is not-awful, keyboard doe…

People may not remember that Apple once had a product lineup like this (before SJ returned) with tons of different model numbers nobody could tell apart.

> Remember Apple in the late '90s? The tech giant was facing significant struggles until Steve Jobs returned and pinpointed the crux: a lack of innovation and focus. Jobs took bold steps to streamline Apple’s bloated product line. He cut down on the excessive range of choices, simplifying the product lineup to focus on quality and innovation. Jobs famously asked his team, "Which ones do I tell my friends to buy?" When he didn’t get a simple answer, he decided to reduce the number of Apple products by 70%. This move included cancelling projects like the Newton digital assistant and focusing on just four key products: the iMac, iBook, Power Macintosh G3, and PowerBook G3.

https://strategeos.com/f/how-your-business-can-focus-on-the-...

Re: The MacBook Neo

#968

Post by esprehn »

luketaylor wrote: post #757
esprehn wrote: post #705

The missing camera light seems pretty serious. Any sandbox escape can turn on the camera and record without you noticing. Or your school or employer could. If you're in full screen mode the menu bar is hidden too. It's a very strange move for privacy centered Apple.

The indicators are controlled along with sensor access at a very low level within a secure “exclave” from the main kernel; this is how the on-screen indicators have worked on iPhones for a few years. The indicator is rendered within the display controller at the firmware level, so can’t be affected by anything in _either_ user mode or kernel mode. [1][2] 1: https://randomaugustine.medium.com/on-apple-exclaves-d683a2c…

Ah this is what I missed: https://daringfireball.net/linked/2026/03/12/macbook-neo-on-...

It's not just the menu bar icon (which can definitely be spoofed), but an on screen dot where the system is controlling pixels directly bypassing any OS level drawing on the screen.

Related: https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/1in0681/iphone_16_m...

Re: The MacBook Neo

#969

Post by ValentineC »

pragmatic wrote: post #104

But you’re stuck with MacOS. I can’t stand it and every update makes it worse. Been running popos abs everything I can and it’s petty nice. Installed it on a new LG Gram and everything works including fingerprint reader. Is my favorite laptop and my old Mac sits gathering dust,

macOS pre-26 was great. I'm on Sequoia, and it's… fine?

I really, really hope Apple fixes liquid glAss with macOS 27, especially now that Alan Dye left.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#970

Post by jwadams_sf »

saagarjha wrote: post #224

> The Neo doesn’t have a hardware indicator light for the camera. The indication for “camera in use” is only in the menu bar. There’s a privacy/security implication for this omission. According to Apple, the hardware indicator light for camera-in-use on MacBooks, iPhones, and iPads cannot be circumvented by software. If the camera is on, that light comes on, and no software can disable it. Because the Neo’s only came…

https://support.apple.com/guide/security/mac-on-screen-camer... > MacBook Neo combines system software and dedicated silicon elements within A18 Pro to provide additional security for the camera feed. The architecture is designed to prevent any untrusted software—even with root or kernel privileges in macOS—from engaging the camera without also visibly lighting the on-screen camera indicator light.
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