Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla ending Models S and X production

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

961–970 of 1001 posts

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#961

Post by Animats »

TOMDM wrote: post #381
Animats wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A reasonable guess. As far as I can tell, the number of humanoid robots doing anything productive is zero. It's all demos. This is far harder than self-driving. As a guy from Waymo once said in a talk, "the output is only two numbers" (speed and steering angle). Also, there are at least 18 humanoid robots good enough to have a Youtube video. Tesla is not the leader. Remember the "cobot" boom of about five years ago?…

> Also, there are at least 18 humanoid robots good enough to have a Youtube video. Agreed, thing is the robot hardware isn't the hard part anymore, the top ten robots are all sufficient to be transformative if they had good enough AI. My bet is on Google/Gemini being the first to market from what I've seen so far. Boston dynamics is a leader in getting robots to do useful niche work in well bounded environments, but…

> Boston dynamics is a leader in getting robots to do useful niche work in well bounded environments, but that's yesterday's news.

BD did most of their locomotion using classical dynamics and control theory until a few years ago. So did Honda, with Asimo. I did some of that in 1994.[1]

Early thinking revolved around landing on the "zero moment point". There's a landing point which, if hit, maintains speed and balance. To speed up, you aim for slightly beyond that point; to slow down, aim for a nearer point. That was Asimo. You could push that concept to the level of BD's "Big Dog", and later, their smaller dogs. Even pre-calculated flips were possible. But that approach gets you rather clunky motion.

The next step was to use some machine learning to tweak the control system parameters. That works, but you don't get overall coordination of all the joints. That only started to appear as machine learning systems became powerful enough to take on the whole problem at once.

Hard problem. Took over three decades to get decent humanoid control. Now everybody is doing it. You can be too early.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc5n0iTw-NU

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#962

Post by wodenokoto »

cs702 wrote: post #653

Five years ago, during the 2021 Q1 earnings call, Musk was asked about Models S and X. He responded: > I mean, they’re very expensive, made in low volume. To be totally frank, we’re continuing to make them more for sentimental reasons than anything else. They’re really of minor importance to the future.

As someone who isn’t deep into Tesla, I honestly don’t know what they have to offer that 3 and Y doesn’t.

Now the Roadster, I could see make sense as a trophy car that rubs off coolness and sportiness to the rest of the lineup

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#963

Post by Deklomalo »

testing22321 wrote: post #742
sgjohnson wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's pure logic that Tesla has to pursue bets that would justify billion dollar valuations and being a car company isn't that. But it's make-believe. Tesla is a car manufacturer. They haven't shipped anything else other than cars. And they even suck at making cars these days. Tesla Semi? All but dead. The new roadster? Also dead. Full Self Driving? Doesn't exist. Robotaxis? Even if they got them to work, at this po…

I know it’s popular to hate on Elon and therefore Tesla, but you need to be accurate when doing so. They’re still chipping away. > Tesla Semi?All but dead. They’ve been running a pilot all this time, and the factory in Nevada to mass produce them is on schedule. Production ramp is second half of this year. The factory is ginormous. > The new roadster? Also dead. Elon said yesterday the unveil is in April “hopefully”…

[dead]

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#964

Post by jve »

dmbche wrote: post #942
jve wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla never refreshes their models I'v seen quite a few Tesla Ys that needed repairs and... they seem to improve the car year to year or even months to months. Car interface suddenly changes to RJ45, some metal parts changed to aluminium (if I'm not mistaken), various things that become easyer to fix and so on. Low Voltage battery getting Li-Ion. Front under body changes: https://service.tesla.com/docs/BodyRepair/B…

Don't you need roadside assistance to change a tire still?

Umm... why?

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#965

Post by jordanbeiber »

not_ai wrote: post #725
gwbas1c wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And to add insult to injury, even GM Super Cruise is widely renowned as better and safer than Tesla’s current “FSD”. My Huyndai's Autopilot equivalent (I don't even know what they call it) is better than the enhanced Autopilot in the Model 3 that I traded in. It actually changes lanes when I put on the blinker, instead of only changing lanes 70% of the time, and the other time just sitting with the blinker on and a…

I did not know this and explains why I see so many teslas with their blinkers on and not maneuvering despite having ample room and time. Ultimately this behavior makes them unsafe for their occupants as well as others around them. Cars only work because we can predict driver behavior, if they break that prediction that’s when bad things are likely to happen… Lately I’ve started to ignore Tesla blinker.

This is most likely due to the fact that it is really bad at resetting blinker when the steering wheel is straight’ish again. Extremely annoying as any other car is much more sensitive (and sensible).

In a tesla an on-ramp to straight highway is rarely enough to stop the blinker, something I’ve never experienced in any other car.

Couple this with, IMO, the best baseline speaker system of any manufacturer… I’ve been driving with the blinker on for several kilometers at times!

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#966

Post by panick21_ »

trhway wrote: post #940
panick21_ wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is just there is no concept of a car company where they only sell their standard mass market vehicles. Somewhat more expensive higher margin vehicles are in the lineup for almost all the other companies. Its kind of strange to suggest its not worth it when it is seemingly worth it for most other companies. Maybe the wisdom of having a 'full lineup' is wrong and has to do with making dealers happy. On the…

It is worth it when it is done right, i.e when you do correct market differentiation (see my other comment here on Mercedes) to avoid your low end cannibalizing your higher end. This high margin really helps you, and this is why almost everybody does it. EVs are probably even better suited for it given that the platform itself is easier/cheaper to share between the low end and the high end - thus the current Teslas S…

The big issue with S/X was that they were not luxury enough, in terms of performance they were fine. So the redesign was mostly needed in terms of interior quality, materials and so on. Not that crazy expensive and something all other car companies manage to do.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#967

Post by panick21_ »

alterom wrote: post #610
panick21_ wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cybertruck was supposed to be for the masses. The just weren't able to hit the price point required because of overly optimistic engineering assessments. I think the whole stainless steel construction concept didn't work as first designed. And of course, Cybertruck design might not have been mass compatible buy being ugly. But that is subjective, if it was cheap and functional and without the political connotations i…

To be "for the masses", it would need to: - be smaller - have an actually usuable truck bed - be painted (so rust isn't an issue) - have a body that's not literally duck taped together in some places and can easily snap in others - use steel (which bends) for body construction - be suitable for towing hauls - not be ridiculously overpowered (...to the extent where engine can overpower the breaks) - have good visibili…

I was talking about mass market for an electric truck.

- F150 is big

- Its perfectly usable, claim otherwise are nonsense. Arguable depending on your workload it has advantages. Not being as good for side-loading is a downside, but many people can't side-load F150 either. But having a cover that locks safely is clearly an upside. In terms of what people actually use these trucks for, like shopping or picking up a few things from Home Depot the bed is useful. Secondly, beds are empty 99% of time anyway.

- All electric trucks are not perfect at towing loads over long distances. For short distances its very good. And again 99.99% of time people are not towing loads long distances. The issue is really only if you want to tow loads long distances as fast as possible.

- Visibility is better then F150

Most of the rest is just nit-picking or looking at the issue only from one side.

And you completely ignore that F150 is already a truck for the masses, as it is literally the most sold vehicle in the US, and it doesn't have to cost 10k. Comparing the Cybertruck to something like Toyota IMV 0 makes no sense when F150 was the target.

> The popularity of The Truck in the US is, in a large part, a byproduct of regulation which gives certain exemptions to specialized work vehicles.[3]

Something that is often claimed but isn't true. That's a contributing factor but by no means the only reason.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#968

Post by panick21_ »

ben_w wrote: post #596
panick21_ wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla has a factor in Germany.

Yes but the factory seems to be struggling to find staff, and the job adverts I see around Berlin suggest the hiring team is out of touch with what appeals to the German job market: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46710328

That may be but the factory exists and operates. Any suggestion that it is somehow impossible to operate in the future is silly. Given that they once had 1700 people more its clear that its not the lack of hiring that the problem, but the lack of demand.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#969

Post by indolering »

philistine wrote: post #930
hbarka wrote: post #812

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Model 3 has radar. It’s no longer functional and just a useless appendage. Until 2020-21 all Tesla had radar but Musk directed Tesla to disable the radar from the software stack, nerfing this hardware on tens of thousands of cars. Why? Because he staked on camera-only and to find out there’s still radar fusion would be against that. The real truth is probably they were derisking the part cost (during Covid) and th…

> The real Tesla engineers must be in all kinds of frustrations That's a very Hacker News point of view, that *of course* engineers have the correct opinion and attitude and are merely suffering under the boots of the real incompetent and nefarious. Engineers at Tesla are wholly complicit.

They 100% make excuses for the guy and buy his bullshit. Nothing screams cognitive dissonance like believing that Elon had no idea that his Nazi salute would look like a Nazi salute!

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#970

Post by akmarinov »

NoPicklez wrote: post #531
akmarinov wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet absolutely no under the hood stats have changed in 8 years - battery capacity, charging rate, charging curve, performance

Sorry? The midrange model 3 now has 750km range as of last year.

It has 702 WLTP, not 750

And that's because they got the long range battery and put it in a RWD configuration - something they haven't done before.

It's not due to any improvement in battery technology, range, charging rate/curve, etc

Post reply on HN