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Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

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Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#961

Post by tootie »

CrzyLngPwd wrote: post #742
dependsontheq wrote: post #706

Let's be a bit more honest here, I think the Italian law is badly defined, but I also think the american perspective is wrong. We (all tech people everywhere me included) argued for a lot of time for free speech on the internet, but the result currently is that we built a system that is free speech for Russian and Chinese bots and actors. In Europe we are under daily attack from Russian accounts that spread massive a…

Well, we cry "freedom of speech" when Russia/China/adversary shuts our propaganda-pushing media or tools out. Freedom of speech for me, not for thee, eh? I don't want my politicians deciding what is good or bad on the internet. I'm an adult, and I can decide for myself.

What about spam? Spam is absolutely protected free speech. Nobody bats an eye at aggressive censorship of spam. We've had the US Congress pass bills restricting spam. Should we overturn all of that and let the spammers have absolute freedom?

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#962

Post by scrollaway »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #936
scrollaway wrote: post #792

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>USA currently threatening to seize land from a sovereign EU nation with pro-MAGAs justifying it at every step That EU nation can join NATO to prevent it.

Denmark already is in NATO, smartypants.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#963

Post by woooooo »

saubeidl wrote: post #919
woooooo wrote: post #915

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but are we losers who cannot compete culturally? Where's the faith and confidence? We can't compete with AI slop?

Can broccoli compete with heroin? Why don't we offer people both and see what they like better? Let them compete! Give people choice!

Setting aside the bad analogy, real people are much more likely to eat broccoli than to do heroin.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#964

Post by torpid »

dependsontheq wrote: post #706

Let's be a bit more honest here, I think the Italian law is badly defined, but I also think the american perspective is wrong. We (all tech people everywhere me included) argued for a lot of time for free speech on the internet, but the result currently is that we built a system that is free speech for Russian and Chinese bots and actors. In Europe we are under daily attack from Russian accounts that spread massive a…

If you cannot tolerate “Russian bots” or “Chinese bots,” then you do not truly stand for free speech. It really is that simple. Free speech, by definition, exists to protect speech that someone finds offensive or objectionable. If everyone only said things that others agreed with, there would be no need for free speech protections at all. In a genuine marketplace of ideas, it is astonishing that anyone would claim the right to censor others, or to strip them of their humanity by dismissing them as mere robots or agents rather than people with sincere views.

Yet we are increasingly binding ourselves (and even “authorized” bots) in chains of verified identity, deliberately suppressing anonymity. Imposing a “zero-trust” architecture on society inevitably leads to totalitarianism.

The right to express ideas without personal attribution has always been a cornerstone of free speech and a free society. It is now being redefined and demonized as mere “bot activity.” While real bots certainly exist (as they have since the days of spam) many accounts labeled as bots are simply human beings who choose anonymity because they hold controversial opinions they do not wish to have traced back to them.

Companies like Cloudflare are among the leaders in this shift by building frameworks ostensibly to monetize AI bot traffic. The consequence, however, is the effective end of online anonymity. When anonymity is forbidden, freedom itself disappears.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#965

Post by pezezin »

nozzlegear wrote: post #887
pelorat wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can't even say "fuck" on TV in the USA, and god forbit a female nipple

That's just a cultural difference between Europeans and Americans, it has nothing to do with freedom of speech in the US.

By that logic, everything is a cultural difference...

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#966

Post by sambuccid »

CrzyLngPwd wrote: post #742
dependsontheq wrote: post #706

Let's be a bit more honest here, I think the Italian law is badly defined, but I also think the american perspective is wrong. We (all tech people everywhere me included) argued for a lot of time for free speech on the internet, but the result currently is that we built a system that is free speech for Russian and Chinese bots and actors. In Europe we are under daily attack from Russian accounts that spread massive a…

Well, we cry "freedom of speech" when Russia/China/adversary shuts our propaganda-pushing media or tools out. Freedom of speech for me, not for thee, eh? I don't want my politicians deciding what is good or bad on the internet. I'm an adult, and I can decide for myself.

But let's be honest, right now it's big tech with their algorithm that's deciding for you. Of course you are still free to find the content you want (unlike what would happen with banning) but most people minds can be influenced by the political view of who owns the platform if they wish to do so.

Maybe a bit of this is already happening (obvious suspect being X) or maybe not, I guess we'll never know for sure, but there is clearly an huge issue here that needs fixing as soon as possible.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#967

Post by drysine »

Sabinus wrote: post #958
drysine wrote: post #910

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want to censor what other people read? I don't think your neighbor would appreciate such patronizing attitude.

I don't want them unknowingly consuming foreign propaganda campaign content and maximally politically divisive conversation. Having spaces where identities are confirmed is really important for honest and open debate. Screaming at each other in Reddit and Facebook comments amongst society-fracturing influence campaigns isn't free speech. And if someone wants to leave the identity confirmed space and go yell in the an…

>I don't want them unknowingly consuming foreign propaganda campaign content and maximally politically divisive conversation.

Good point.

That's what Putin's "foreign agents" law addresses.

The law is much criticized by Western media and "NGOs" for some reason.

As a matter of fact, it marginalizes any recipient of foreign money even if they do something genuinely good for Russian people, but I doubt it is why the West doesn't like this law.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#968

Post by woooooo »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #948
furyofantares wrote: post #943

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you tautologically define "best" as "that which wins", sure. There's many ways for something to be better than another thing, though, and a lot of stuff is winning because it's best at "engagement" even if it's really bad in many other ways.

> If you tautologically define "best" as "that which wins", sure Spot on. By OP’s metric, we should shift all agricultural and pharmaceutical production to heroin.

I've seen some straw-men in my day but "OP wants to shift all agricultural production to heroin" might be an all-timer.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#969

Post by simianparrot »

pezezin wrote: post #965
nozzlegear wrote: post #887

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just a cultural difference between Europeans and Americans, it has nothing to do with freedom of speech in the US.

By that logic, everything is a cultural difference...

You can say fuck on TV, it just increases the age rating. Same with showing nipples. Freedom of speech isn’t freedom from _any_ consequences of speech…

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#970

Post by gck1 »

pornel wrote: post #933
azangru wrote: post #879

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact he's posting on X to begin with is a warning in itself. Why so? The counter at the bottom of the post claims that it has been viewed 7.5 million times. I don't know how this translates into individual people; but still, probably a decent reach?

It's not about reach, but about not seeing a problem in being a member of Elon Musk's website.

Which social network would you choose if you wanted reach?

There isn't any that isn't run by questionable people.

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