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I wasted years of my life in crypto

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Re: I wasted years of my life in crypto

#961
post #690

I worked at a crypto exchange and after I came to the conclusion that 99% of crypto was scams and rugpulls, I sold all my crypto and vowed to have nothing to do with it. It's more of a religion than a financial instrument and absolutely nothing has shown to me that crypto is anything more than a speculative gamble, basically tulips with the religious promise of a better world. The number of employees that lost money…

Both supporters and critics approach it too religiously. Yes 99% is scams and rugpulls. The rest of the higher profile coins are, at the very least, tools to make money. Why emotionally sell all your crypto vs holding some higher quality as insurance with potential upside? Or even, ride the periodic bulls and take profits, rinse and repeat? If it's full of scammers, why not take some of their money? Does this require…

It is basically a big game of hot potato. If you are OK with that, fine, but you are still just gambling on a party game chip.

There is a little bit of real value in having a rail that is hard to block, so you can move money across borders or around account freezes, sanctions, or runaway inflation. But that probably only justifies a tiny slice of the current price.

Most of the rest is speculation.

Fiat is different. A national currency is tied to the economy that uses it. Wages, rent, groceries, taxes, all live in that unit. Even if it crashes on FX markets you can still use it inside that country to buy local goods and services, and over time prices and wages shift along with it. The currency may fall against the dollar, but the local cost of living in that currency moves with it too.

The dream was that crypto gets adopted economically in a similar fashion, and even globally, that simply didn't happen, so it ended up just being gambling.

Re: I wasted years of my life in crypto

#963

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make money from the next greater fool who walks in the door. That's the essence of crypto, magic beans and greater fools.

I'm not into cryptocurrencies and I hold exactly 0 of them but... Isn't basically how people make money out of gold?

Yes, gold is very similar, but it has the benefit of being centuries old and not dependent on complex infrastructure.

Specifically, there is value in a global peer to peer and agreed upon standard of exchange of a guaranteed scarce resource that can't be double spent, such as gold and some cryptos.

Imagine a war, a natural catastrophe, societal collapse or upheaval.

You have to pack up, go elsewhere, or you're suddenly occupied.

Basically you have to ask yourself, what's more likely to be worth something in the future or elsewhere that I can park my money into until I need it?

Since Gold has such a history of being accepted by various cultures and people around the world, and it is very resilient, it doesn't require power, infra, computers, nodes, won't get easily destroyed to environmental incidents, can be stashed away for centuries without degrading, etc. It is arguably more likely to still be used as an exchange of value in the future.

Crypto, well, you have to be specific, let's say Bitcoin BTC, how likely is it that your wallet on your hard drive if you migrate from a war and find yourself in a new world order at the other end of the world, you can still use them to trade for goods/services and they're worth close too or more of what they were before?

It's hard to predict, but arguably it seems less resilient than Gold and therefore less likely for it to hold its value over time. That said, it may still appear better than USD, Euros, or shares in some company, etc.

That's why people say BTC is a "store of value", like gold. You use it to stow away value for when you need it later (even generations later), because it appears to be good at holding value even through geopolitical shifts, passage of time, and so on.

But, if people aren't actually using it for storing value, but instead for speculative bets, it means they are taking money out of it and not leaving it in, it becomes volatile, and volatility is a bad "store of value", because when you might need the value if it's at a "low" it's gone, and it failed at the use case.

If you go outside BTC, it becomes even less likely the other cryptos are good stores of value, and more and more they become speculative bets and a game of chicken.

And even BTC has high volatility and is used for speculative bets a lot. And gold isn't immune to his either.

There's no good answer here, nobody knows the future for sure, but that's the idea.

When people defend crypto as a store of value, now you know what they mean. They're basically hoping it'll hold value through borders, time, and so on.

Re: I wasted years of my life in crypto

#964

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make money from the next greater fool who walks in the door. That's the essence of crypto, magic beans and greater fools.

no it really isnt. the value of crypto as it relates to FIAT is in trading volume over time, and it does not mean anyone needs to be a fool left holding the bag unless the trading volume decreases and doesnt return. I want to buy something and use BTC as a medium for exchange. I take $10,000, buy BTC, send BTC to the seller, the seller takes the BTC and exchanges it for $10,000 However, we are not the only buyers and…

Yes, but now, years later, there's been very little if any uptick in using BTC as an exchange of value, and many times less so for other coins.

I think that's where OP might have realized that, the ideal hasn't happened and it's use case is just a game of chicken.

Re: I wasted years of my life in crypto

#965

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> credit card chargebacks, escrow, and fraud departments exist and work every day without requiring a perfect government. It doesn’t matter at all that there exists cases of government abuse. What about cases of private abuse? Suppose you're using Paypal or Stripe and they lock your account for no apparent reason. Money you were paid for goods you've already shipped is now locked up, stolen from you, with no explanat…

> What about cases of private abuse? What about it? Your entire point boils down to “fiat has flaws therefore crypto is better”, while completely ignoring that crypto is worse at the very things fiat is flawed at. Fiat sometimes doesn’t protect you, but crypto NEVER does, and CAN’T, even in principle. None of your CONSTANT whataboutism across this entire thread is going to change this, so please, just stop posting.

> Fiat sometimes doesn’t protect you, but crypto NEVER does, and CAN’T, even in principle.

You're selling your old PC. The buyer pays you with Paypal or a check or some other digital fiat transfer, you give them possession of the PC, then they reverse the charge and steal your money.

That's the thing cryptocurrency protects you from, in the same way and for the same reason as cash does. And if the fiat system would provide that over the internet -- irreversible anonymous cash transfers -- then cryptocurrency would be a lot less useful. But it doesn't, so it's not.

Re: I wasted years of my life in crypto

#966

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They ask you for your social security number when you try to activate it.

At the checkout?

The cards aren't activated. You open it and there's a link or phone number to activate it and then they ask you who you are.

Re: I wasted years of my life in crypto

#967

I really love this thread more and more, so I just want to appreciate this moment right now because these discussions are genuinely fascinating to read and I wish to comment a lot and actually feel a little overwhelmed because of it haha Personally I am really interested in stablecoins, I know there is nothing interesting about them fundamentally and I think people should have their money in banks but still there are…

Edit: Nope, I do not think that I am gonna work on something like stablecoin or crypto related. Let me try to clarify, I was looking at how people create their own cross platform chain just out of curiosity regarding stablecoins and then I saw a crypto gambling token and that tilted me so hard...

Everything started making sense. The first and foremost use of crypto is gambling. Everything else is a rather side effect of it (like me being 17 being able to pay via crypto)

I feel like some/most crypto might prey on the weak and gullible who can be going through things financially maybe by gambling as in trading or literal gambling... and then make their lives even more bad too and now I understand what the author actually meant, I think I was interested to see if its an industry worth working in but in my honest opinion right now not really...

Unless, I can work with something which can make me more traditional finance and give me regulations, maybe having stablecoin then can be fine but even then I genuinely do not think so that I am a guy who wants to work in or create a place and then create all these regulations and similar... I find this whole thing pointless from my perspective as a developer.

Most crypto can be used to be unregulated, gambling, piracy etc. and I think have a very high abuse factor too...

It was very interesting but I was just trying to spend some time I guess just seeing how people made chains but nope, I do not know but I am deeply offended by these gambling companies and exchanges too who are for traders who most likely lose their money in this weird shit show most of the times.

I think um the solution personally is that I always liked the idea of paying for servers anonymously, hosting anonymous contact so that you can say things against govt lets say if govt becomes too authoritative etc. but the problem is that this is also an side product and I doubt how many things need it. France actively went against grapheneos but couldnt do nothing I guess except have them move their servers and there are many many server providers who can even understand situations and maybe having a better connection or understanding with server providers can help out more.

Re: I wasted years of my life in crypto

#968

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and "buying subversive literature" is a crime too. That was the original point.

If you took all the crypto txns and grouped them by purchase, I would be willing to bet mortgage money that approximately nobody uses crypto to buy "subversive literature", out to many many decimal places of precision.

Why does that matter to the person who wants to buy subversive literature?

Re: I wasted years of my life in crypto

#969

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So literally 0.1% of the financial needs of the average person. "Thing that solves some problems for some people doesn't solve all problems for all people" is not a very useful criticism.

It is when people are trying to act like Bitcoin is an enormous source of value to the market like several JP Morgans and not a Hallmark level of value provided

World GDP is >$100T/year. What percentage of that does something have to be used for before it's worth something?

Re: I wasted years of my life in crypto

#970
post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That (freedom of payments) may have been the idea. But there are two problems with it: 1. Payments which you can't make today inside a legal system are two types. And if you enable system you automatically enable both types. For libertarians that is a clear 100% positive. For regular centrist citizens, not so much. At minimum it's a topic for debate. 2. BTC and a few other tokens actually make this problem worse. Sin…

> Payments which you can't make today inside a legal system are two types. And if you enable system you automatically enable both types. For libertarians that is a clear 100% positive. For regular centrist citizens, not so much. The problem with this argument is that cryptocurrency now exists whether it's legal or not and using it for illegal things is already illegal. Drug dealers are committing a felony by selling…

> At which point, what are you gaining by making it illegal or inconvenient for innocent people to use it for something that isn't otherwise illegal?

The problem is scale. The more widespread is such system, the lower is the barrier to entry and the higher is cost to actually prosecute users to their amount and rate of usage (which we already see today).

Also this whole legal/illegal divide is often presented as if there was approximately same order of magnitude of both users. While I guess that actually the illegal use is way way larger than the legal use, simply because it is so crude and slow and buggy and unsafe by design. (excluding gambling, since that use is kinda derivative, depending on the all other uses making up a base on which to gamble)

And this is why token systems by rights should be heavily restricted, since they are so disproportionate in impact. We can all legally buy a knife in any shop, despite the fact that if used for attack a knife almost inevitably produces at least one body. Small arms are also available almost anywhere but with a lot of restrictions. Big arms are almost never available for purchase, just like explosives. And then the stuff like a canister of zarin is totally out of the question. That's because of the disproportionate effect. Same with financial instruments. Tokens are an Abrams of the finance world, and currently we let anyone have one, which is mindboggling to me.

> In other words, when anyone can send you money without your permission, your options are "everything is dirty" or "everything is clean".

You are correct. Afaik all tries to ban Tornado laundered tokens were eventually dropped. But the mechanism and potential still remains.

Also, please correct me if I'm wrong, in the case of BTC specifically we can track tokens from the "dust" attack and separate them from the legal and nice tokens, since they will stay in the different UTXO in the same wallet. Though I'm not very familiar with that, if it possible to pick which UTXO to transfer selectively.

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