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Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

middleeasteye.net

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Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#961

Post by Aerbil313 »

MagicMoonlight wrote: post #883
perfmode wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the deliberate creation of unlivable conditions on the ground and the absence of any viable plan for restoring Palestinian life and sovereignty, the civilian population of Gaza faces two primary and foreseeable outcomes: Mass mortality from non-combat causes: The synergistic crisis of famine, disease, and healthcare collapse makes widespread death from starvation, dehydration, and preventable illness a mathemat…

And do you think we defeated the nazis by leaving their food intact? By leaving their bomb factories intact? Did we refuse to invade their cities in case the innocent nazi citizens got killed? War is war. I don’t see a single person in that territory that opposes the war. They simply want the other side to surrender because they are losing a war they started.

You have replied:

> And do you think we defeated the nazis by leaving their food intact?

to the parent comment saying:

> 28% of children under five are actively malnourished.

> IPC Phase 5 famine is officially confirmed in Gaza. 100% of the population is facing crisis level food insecurity.

Can you clarify what you mean? I don't think you somehow believe genocide is necessary or something like that.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#962

Post by Aerbil313 »

Which other country can attack 6 countries in 72 hours and get away with it[1]?

I very rarely expose myself to international news. When I do, it's strikingly obvious that Americans have a president who treats every other country as if they are children to be disciplined (cue Trump "I'm disappointed in Putin/Israel/Canada..."), and Israel is the favorite child who can disobey the father and bully whoever he wants without consequence.

1: https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/world-int/27890-israel-attacks-...

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#963

Post by archdang »

dotancohen wrote: post #948

This is an excellent, well-sourced analysis of the genocide claim. https://freebeacon.com/israel/the-u-n-genocide-report-agains...

It is very far from excellent. Did you read it?

The Free Beacon piece feels like it’s arguing against a caricature of the UN report rather than the report itself. The Commission wasn’t trying to do a military balance sheet of Hamas vs. Israel. It was a legal analysis under the Genocide Convention. That means it asked: do Israel’s actions and official statements check the boxes for genocidal acts and intent?

And on that front, the report isn’t just “repeating Hamas numbers.” It leans thoroughly on interviews, satellite imagery, verified video, medical testimony, etc. The ICJ already said there’s a plausible genocide case and ordered Israel to let in more aid months ago. Fast forward: famine is now confirmed in northern Gaza, which really undercuts claims of “unprecedented humanitarian relief.” The UN verdict is a very detailed legal case that can’t just be waved away with “what about Hamas tunnels.” Your "excellent" article doesn't budge the needle at all on this.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#964

Post by dotancohen »

archdang wrote: post #963
dotancohen wrote: post #948

This is an excellent, well-sourced analysis of the genocide claim. https://freebeacon.com/israel/the-u-n-genocide-report-agains...

It is very far from excellent. Did you read it? The Free Beacon piece feels like it’s arguing against a caricature of the UN report rather than the report itself. The Commission wasn’t trying to do a military balance sheet of Hamas vs. Israel. It was a legal analysis under the Genocide Convention. That means it asked: do Israel’s actions and official statements check the boxes for genocidal acts and intent? And on th…

Genocide is judged on the merit of intention. The report ignores all context of intent.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#966

Post by ii41 »

kharak wrote: post #697

Every time I've looked into the arguments for this being a genocide, I saw, at best, a description of urban warfare. Maybe I am wrong. If anyone is still reading this thread, could you write what you believe will happen after Israel won the war?

Then you have misunderstandings about urban warfare. Bakhmut is urban warfare. It's actually called an urban meat grinder, the worst form of urban warfare. Civilian casualties at Bakhmut is one or two orders of magnitude smaller than total casualties per different sources and estimates. 80% civilian casualties and 50% being women and children is not "at best urban warfare."

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#967

Post by ii41 »

brainwad wrote: post #707
kharak wrote: post #697

Every time I've looked into the arguments for this being a genocide, I saw, at best, a description of urban warfare. Maybe I am wrong. If anyone is still reading this thread, could you write what you believe will happen after Israel won the war?

I more or less agree with you (if it were a _genocide_, you'd expect Israel to be equally targeting Palestinians in the West Bank and in Israel proper), but the report does have some specific examples of things that seem to go beyond "just" urban warfare. For example, Israel denied shipments of baby milk powder, which can serve no legitimate military purpose (except trying to prosecute the war via starvation of babie…

Nazi Germany had Jewish officials. I'm sure they didn't commit _genocide_ against Jews.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#970

Post by Qiu_Zhanxuan »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #944
ynx wrote: post #869

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot to unpack in this. Your #1 is encoding an unexamined assumption that there is a fixed or at least somewhat inflexible amount of violence to be directed anywhere. It also ignores the lightning generation engine, so to speak, that is the settler colonialism causing unrest across the region. On #2 - Rational people see that they are willing to do everything short of nuclear war when they feel like their c…

The lightning generation engine is the Islamist money for terror. And you are not addressing point #2 at all. I pointed out that the Jews know that to stay if Israel collapses is to die. You are asking them to die and you are asking that they not use their second strike capability when that happens.

When Nazi Germany was occupying the rest of Europe, it also labelled any inside movement of resistance as Terrorism. International law recognizes both occupation and colonization as crimes. Labeling and merging the Palestinians into a single entity called "the terrorists" is a lazy attempt to deny the legitimate claim for freedom and self-determination of an indigenous populations.
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