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The $25k car is going extinct?

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Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#961

Post by moooo99 »

WiSaGaN wrote: post #623
moooo99 wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, that statement is entirely untrue. These cars aren‘t 10k in most (all?) of the EU for example. As far as I know, these 10k cars are really only a thing in china and some SEA markets (I am not sure if these cars are really that cheap adjusted to purchasing power in these markets). Beyond that, the chinese EV brands are in market capture mode right now. The competition is cut throat and the margins are ex…

Can you name one example of a consumer product that China initially sold affordably to gain market share and then later raised prices?

One recent category I just had to buy a new one: Robot Vacuums

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#962

Post by hakfoo »

ceejayoz wrote: post #893
cogman10 wrote: post #797

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is fundamentally no difference between a golf car and an electric car other than a higher top speed and more powerful motor. > What should it do when the throttle pedal goes from 0 to 99 percent? How fast? 0->99% in 1 second is likely the user gunning it. 0 to 99 percent in a millisecond is likely a fault. In either case, the simplest solution is a capacitor in-between the signal and throttle. Doesn't need to b…

But an EV has instant torque; going 0-99% in one second is probably unwise and not fixed by a capacitor. Software's what helps us not strip the rubber off the tires, or mitigates a slipping wheel on ice. It's a lot more than a capacitor at work.

This is a belt-and-suspenders thing.

The gas pedal on an EV isn't connected to a passive rheostat gating the entire power output of the vehicle.

It's a low-voltage sensor. A capacitor can swallow a transient of a 0.1v signal bursting to 5v for ten milliseconds, and then software converts it into whatever "sport mode acceleration curve" the marketing department calls for.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#963

Post by tptacek »

SoftTalker wrote: post #923
wombatpm wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but you have to live in the City. The suburbs are impossible without a car.

Well, around Chicago some of the smaller suburbs have a nice little downtown and are on a train line into the city. If you lived near that you might get by just using online shopping and uber if you occasionally needed to go somewhere. There is bus service too but it's not that good. But in general, and in the larger suburbs yes you would be pretty inconvenienced without a car. But that is true of suburbs everywhere.

You'd be fine in basically all of the inner-ring suburbs except maybe on the south side.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#964

Post by sambf »

zeroq wrote: post #124

Last year we bought a car. While not being a petrol head I was still living in a lala land where you could buy a brand new car for 10k EUR. Nothing fancy, just "a car". Obviously it turned out to be not true. After some digging it turned out that in the last 10 years the price of cars went double. Literally double. Same car, like Fiat Panda, with the same engine and configuration, that ten years was worth one potato…

A used Renault Twingo II with AC cost around 5k€ if you want "just a car"

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#965

Post by scotty79 »

ajkjk wrote: post #909
scotty79 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflation is a result of too much money being created than what is needed by the growth of the economy. Average price increase that we use to estimate it is just a useful proxy. Inflation is always the main contribution to price increase. It only makes sense to compare price raise above or below inflation if you want to unearth factors specific to any given product or industry.

I've never found that econ 101 logic credible. Even if money supply is ultimate the reason for prices going up, there's an intermediate step where somebody actually set a higher price . And there was a cause for their thinking. Not just "well there's more money going around so we can charge more " or "our parts and labor cost more so we've got to bump prices", but a synthesis of all that that decides the price to set…

> there's an intermediate step where somebody actually set a higher price

Yes. But the most common reason for setting up higher price is because you can, because there's more money flowing in the economy than it should be. Going into details is in the grand scheme of things about as useful as rearranging chairs on the Titanic.

> Why aren't there cheaper cars? Not because there's more money, but because nobody decided to make and sell a cheaper car. That's the stuff that we should be asking about.

Yes. But we should be asking why cars are 3% more expensive, because their prices rose by 29% while the inflation is "only" 26% (don't remember exact numbers), not why car prices rose 29%. If you don't deduct inflation you are interested in wrong things because large numbers make you think there's a drastic reason.

Does 3% even deserve and explanation? Isn't it fully explained by toxic advertising making consumer want heavier car year after year, that naturally cost more?

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#966

Post by scotty79 »

habnds wrote: post #492
scotty79 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflation is a result of too much money being created than what is needed by the growth of the economy. Average price increase that we use to estimate it is just a useful proxy. Inflation is always the main contribution to price increase. It only makes sense to compare price raise above or below inflation if you want to unearth factors specific to any given product or industry.

Inflation is completely possible with no change in money supply. This is handled in economics with the idea of the "velocity of money" which conceptually captures the large range of factors by which prices can increase due to factors beyond money supply, for example an energy price shock or changing consumer and business expectations that result in changes in spending and investment patterns.

> Inflation is completely possible with no change in money supply.

Money supply always changes. But yes, inflation is possible without changing money supply, if for example economy shrinks or there's some process that reactivated dormant capital that people had just sitting around and not being used by the economy.

In the end it's always the same thing. More money than it should be. It's just that "should be" is very complex and "more money" only a little bit simpler.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#967

Post by contrarian1234 »

BanterTrouble wrote: post #614
contrarian1234 wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got a fixed gear bike with the promise it'd be easily fixable at home. The reality is you need a special tool for more than half the things you'd wanna swap/change I imagine a car is x100 worse

That isn't true. You are overstating the problem. I've built a custom fixed gear. I have 3 custom tools. They cost me £45 all together. My current toolbox for the car is: - Socket set (£50 halfords) - Spanners (I already had these I guess £20-30) - Allen Keys (£5) - Several different types of Cir-clip pliers (£20-40) - A battery powered soldering iron (£50-100). I have no mains power where I work on the vehicle. - A…

Changing the bottom bracket

Changing any of the bearings

Tuning the spokes on the wheels

Changing the cog

All require special tools that cost more than 45 pounds

Only the several wrenches, Allen keys (because none are the same size), chain break and tire-changing plungers cost less

Every nut and every screw has a different size. It's madness

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#968

Post by shakna »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #134
shakna wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whilst I can spiel off complaints, public transport in Australia gets my kid to and from school everyday, and myself to and from work in two different cities, everyday, without being late. (When the union isn't striking). It does seem to work.

How do you get to train station?

All buses flow in and out of the train station. Buses move in and out of all the suburbs.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#969

Post by potato3732842 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #862
potato3732842 wrote: post #850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ESC in effect mandates the same hardware as the highest end ABS systems and adds throttle by wire on top of that. Pretty much every AWD car can do "dumb" ABS that uses pedal pressure to run with just the sensors the AWD system uses (front axle speed and rear axle speed) but you need an expensive ABS system with a pump and a throttle by wire system if you want to be able to have the system do stuff when no foot is on…

A new pump or the power braking pump I already have? Is throttle control a mandatory part?

You can make ABS systems without the pump. They take use the driver's input instead. That's how lots of early systems worked. You give up a little stopping distance in the case where one axle or one side of the car has a ton more traction than the other (think like driving in the gutter of a really strongly crowned road in a downpour) but they work pretty good and are CHEAP, like real cheap.

Throttle control is necessary because you need to lock the driver out of the throttle for ESC. Think of ESC as basically preventing soccer moms from mashing the pedal and getting sideways unnecessarily. Depending on how sideways they get initially the ESC programming is going to want to drag certain brakes to help get everything good again and that requires a pump since the driver's foot isn't there to give pressure (it might still be on the gas).

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#970

Post by ekianjo »

Schiendelman wrote: post #554
ekianjo wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulations will make cars unaffordable which is exactly what they are pushing for

Yeah! Let's get rid of requirements for headlights and seatbelts, and brake lights, too. Why do we need all that? /s

Gotta love a strawman once in a while
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