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IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

haaretz.com

961–970 of 1001 posts

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#961

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An ordinary Israeli citizen is born in that land, knows nothing else, just learns that the entirety of the surrounding populations want them dead - and will with very high likelihood experience terror attacks themselves. That this upbringing doesn't exactly make you want to engage with the other side is psychologically understandable. This "entirety of the surrounding population want them dead" language is both deh…

> Most want it replaced with a secular state where everyone has equal rights. I believe that this is true of most of the people you've worked with. However, polling in the West Bank and Gaza finds that to be a fairly unpopular position. Quoting https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/what-do-... : > These numbers are not the same as popular support for a single state “from the river to the sea” with equal…

> I believe that this is true of most of the people you've worked with. However, polling in the West Bank and Gaza finds that to be a fairly unpopular position

Late response on my part, but it sounds like we're mostly in agreement.

I will add that I think what people would accept is different from what they will tell interviewers they want.

I agree that there will be antisemitism everywhere, and as a Jewish person doing organizing work with Jewish groups, there will certainly selection/sampling bias among the Palestinians I interact with.

I'll also say that the prejudice of the oppressed shouldn't be seen the same as the prejudice of the oppressor.

If a slave in the U.S. in 1840 believed white people were inherently incapable of empathy, I imagine that the only people focusing on their "anti-white racism" would be doing so to defend the status quo of slavery.

When Palestinians living under occupation talk about "Jews" it's likely that the only interactions they've had with Jewish people were with IDF soldiers enforcing their occupation, perhaps shooting at them during peaceful protests, killing their friends, their family members, and so on.

The focus should be on liberation, even if people with problematic beliefs are among the oppressed.

Even if it's the case that most people in Gaza and/or in the West Bank are antisemitic (and even if it was the case that most of them "wanted all Jews dead", which I think is a gross mischaracterization of the situation) that doesn't mean they would turn down a justice-oriented plan which would allow them to participate with full equality under the political systems that dictates their freedoms.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#962
post #822

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been one of the deadliest conflicts for journalists in history. The number of killed journalists is very safe data, since the names are known and the cause of death is typically relatively well researched. The story told by the data is that these journalists are overwhelmingly killed by Israeli forces, in some cases with prior notice of the press being where it was. So if the IDF wants the press to tell the…

Hamas member gets a press west by hamas newspaper or the muslim brotherhood (quatar) then participates in hamas warcrimes like using ambulances as troop transports and gets humused. Nobody believes those loud lies anymore.. that whole narrative is falling apart.

You are defending the killing of civillian journalists in a war zone using unchecked propaganda — if you make bold claims, you gotta bring the receipts as well.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#964
post #951

GHF discloses 12 of its local staff members murdered by Hamas, others tortured in Gaza https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-859425

...justifying what, exactly? Increased suffering? Another Hannibal Directive?

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#965
post #826
post #822

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been one of the deadliest conflicts for journalists in history. The number of killed journalists is very safe data, since the names are known and the cause of death is typically relatively well researched. The story told by the data is that these journalists are overwhelmingly killed by Israeli forces, in some cases with prior notice of the press being where it was. So if the IDF wants the press to tell the…

I don't disagree with you there at all. That again backs up my point. There is a lot of information and evidence to back those cases up. Which should be the universal standard that we hold everyone accountable to. This information didn't just appear out of nowhere. It took time to collate, source and verify.

> This information didn't just appear out of nowhere. It took time to collate, source and verify.

Could you try to rely less on using vague innuendo on HN? If you have reasonable doubt in a theory and/or additional/missing information that isn't purely anecdotal that lead you to your statement consider sharing it on here. If you don't have any information consider the option that your opiniom might not be as much supported by the ground truth as you probably like it to be.

Journalists like these are professionals that are paid to work in a conflict zone, if they are killed, of course their death will be noted. It works like this in literally every conflict on earth and there are international organizations that monitor violence against journalists because they are an fundamentally important pillar of any free society.

The question is why the technologically advanced IDF kills journalists at rates higher than in any other conflict zone on earth. This isn't a statistical anomaly that can be simply hand-waved away. It describes the nature of this conflict with numbers that are written with blood.

Anybody who defends the killing of journalists in a war zone is on the wrong side of history, period.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#966
post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The entire strategy of Israel's opponents in the middle east is to engage in war crimes. I think war crimes are a lot more acceptable/understandable if they’re the only way you even potentially have a chance to get back at your agressors. Nobody blames the resistance during the Nazi occupation for what they did. Israel is very much not in a position they need to perpetrate war crimes to win the war. They have alrea…

> Nobody blames the resistance during the Nazi occupation for what they did. Are you really sure about that? Maybe now, but while it was happening, I'm not so sure everyone was on board. Quite the opposite.

Fair point. Collective punishment has a way of making people feel like that, which is of course entirely the point. Of course, collective punishment isn’t any less of a crime.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#967
post #720
post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> War crimes in this war should be dealt with. Nuremberg trials is really not the right analogy. War crimes for firing into a crowd of civilians, for both the one that ordered it, and those that executed it, should definitely be at the same levels as the nuremberg trials. The fact that it will never happen doesn’t detract from that. Happily, the ICC seems to already know so, which is why there’s warrants out for all…

The ICC is a political circus and Israel is not a signatory. It has no jurisdiction. Even if Israel was a signatory the ICC should only intervene after Israel has done its own investigation and if it failed to hold the relevant standards. If there were war crimes committed then people need to be held accountable. The scale of the alleged war crimes is totally different than the crimes persecuted in Nuremberg.

> the ICC should only intervene after Israel has done its own investigation

We have investigated our highest leaders, and have found them absolutely blameless. Netanyahu is often found on the same golden cloud that Putin is often seen floating around on.

There’s a reason we have a police force instead of allowing the criminals to investigate themselves.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#969

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe someone should tell that to the soldiers. “Israeli Soldiers Killed at Least 410 People at Food Aid Sites in Gaza This Month” — https://theintercept.com/2025/06/27/israel-killed-palestinia...

Sure I definitely believe it. It’s definitely true. For sure.

FYI, "Israel acknowledges Palestinian civilians harmed at Gaza aid sites": https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-acknowledge...

Looking forward to the next goalpost.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#970
post #744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd probably be considered left (or even far-left) by Israeli standards, but I'm in the "pro-Israeli" camp as conventionally understood online. Would you consider ethno-nationalists of other nations (far) left, based on (speculating) their economic/women's rights/LGBT/other social stances? (Orthogonally, I can certainly empathize with being pro-something, but not pro-everything-that-something-does. There's certainl…

> Would you consider ethno-nationalists of other nations (far) left, based on (speculating) their economic/women's rights/LGBT/other social stances? If your implication is that I'm an ethno-nationalist, I don't think that characterizes Israel or my thoughts about it, however much "ethnostate" is a favorite slur of people to use against Israel.

If you're not an ethno-nationalist, would you be okay with Jews becoming a minority in Israel? The usual retort is that you can't because all your neighbors hate you - but there's no requirement immigrants come from neighbor countries, as immigration to England, Germany, and France shows.
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