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Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

cnn.com

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Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#961

Post by FireBeyond »

542354234235 wrote: post #750
vixen99 wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can the incident (with video evidence) you describe not potentially result in criminal charges? Why hold your breath? Surely there are countless people to act on that.

I initially thought this was a joke or sarcasm, but not everyone has seen everything that happens (the lucky 10,000 and all that). But during the 2020 Black Lives Matter protests, police, especially in Portland Oregon, used brutal and indiscriminate violence against protestors [1]. Some of the most brutal and blatant cases were eventually prosecuted [2] but most were not and never will be [3,4]. There were also multi…

> better to find a new job than the slight chance of accountability, I guess

People have long argued for a national register of police officers who were terminated for cause, or resigned to avoid termination for cause.

Awesome.

Except, at last count, about 70-75% of the nation's police departments have forbidden its use in hiring decisions due to their collective bargaining agreement with police unions...

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#963

Post by ath3nd »

trashtester wrote: post #450
trilbyglens wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the system is designed to allow these people in a gray zone, so they do not have access to the same rights as citizens and therefore can be exploited. The problem is not illegal immigration. It's just a political football. Our economy would fily collapse without this cheap labor to exploit.

It would not collapase. But it would shift some purchaing power from the middle class to the working class if all of them would leave, as working class salaries would go up even faster than the inflatino it would cause.

> working class salaries would go up even faster than the inflatino it would cause.

Good, working class salaries need to be high! We can't function as a society without all the people who dispose of our garbage, maintain our plumbing and water supply, grow our food, provide our electricity, and support our IT infrastructure.

Only one clarification: there is no difference between lower class, middle class and working class. White collar or blue collar, we are all collared.

The middle class construct is artificially invented so the owning class (people who don't have to work for their money) have something for the workers to aspire to. A software engineer with $300k/y is far closer wealth wise to a minimum wage worker in Mickey-D than they are to your Tim Cooks, Jeff Bezos and Adolf, pardon, Elon Musk.

In a Tesla, Prius or in a old Dodge, you are still stuck in traffic while they are flying with private jets.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#964

Post by fragmede »

ath3nd wrote: post #963
trashtester wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would not collapase. But it would shift some purchaing power from the middle class to the working class if all of them would leave, as working class salaries would go up even faster than the inflatino it would cause.

> working class salaries would go up even faster than the inflatino it would cause. Good, working class salaries need to be high! We can't function as a society without all the people who dispose of our garbage, maintain our plumbing and water supply, grow our food, provide our electricity, and support our IT infrastructure. Only one clarification: there is no difference between lower class, middle class and working…

We are all closer to being millionaires than Jeff Bezos.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#965

Post by ath3nd »

Gareth321 wrote: post #456
trashtester wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would not collapase. But it would shift some purchaing power from the middle class to the working class if all of them would leave, as working class salaries would go up even faster than the inflatino it would cause.

Exactly. It would rebalance the value provided by blue collar work. They could finally demand a higher wage without being undercut by illegal workers.

I find it super funny that the average Joe will condemn an "illegal" worker for undercutting another, but never ask themselves the question who employed that "illegal" worker.

How come the blame is not solely on the businesses willingly employing thousands of "illegal workers", not paying tax on them nor health benefits, and not even minimum wage, and in that way undercutting the value of blue collar labor?

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#966

Post by ImJamal »

dylan604 wrote: post #99
vasco wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not american but I remember marines being mobilized for hurricane Katrina in New Orleans too. Funny that if it's so bad to deploy them, why is it OK to deploy them in other countries?

Their job is to be deployed internationally and specifically not to be deployed domestically. That's why it's so appalling.

The Insurrection Act of 1807 allows the president to deploy troops within the US to squash riots and other things.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#967

Post by CMay »

e40 wrote: post #923
CMay wrote: post #350

Everything is a constitutional crisis now, because nobody really knows what a constitutional crisis is. We're just numbing people down and normalizing the words until they mean nothing, because we aren't using them when they really matter. The details of this do not seem like they warrant calling it a constitutional crisis. When we actually face one, there won't be words we can use to describe it anymore, because we'…

DJT just talked about arresting Newsom. When asked why by reporters he said because he was a bad governor. We can bury our heads all we want, but this seems like a constitutional crisis to me. Said another way, hiw many signs do we have to ignore before we call it one?

What you're talking about is the rhetoric and politics surrounding the current times as opposed to the reality. Trump says a lot of things and he is a man of action, so that makes him a credible threat whenever he says he's going to do something. At the same time, it's pretty normal that whatever he does goes through a team of lawyers first.

This is convenient for Trump, because anything he says that people get riled up about ends up discrediting them as ridiculous, because the reality ends up being less surprising. In the US you can only be president so long as you remain within an operable window of reasonability, which Trump remains within despite his character.

Now, does that mean you just ignore the rhetoric and stop paying attention to let it normalize in your mind so that when something actually bad happens it can just feel like a minor iteration rather than a shocking leap? No. That said, the rhetoric is the rhetoric and the reality is the reality.

Trump also said to lock Hillary up, yet that never happened. Sure, you shouldn't have to be a constitutional lawyer or understand entirely how the country works to get a decent sense for what's really happening, but ideally high quality journalists help fill that role to contextualize important events, grounding viewers in reality. The problem is that people get so much of their news from entertainment comedy shows and emotional opinion shows now rather than actual boring (good boring) journalistic media. It becomes celebrity clickbait.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#968

Post by CMay »

ModernMech wrote: post #948
CMay wrote: post #350

Everything is a constitutional crisis now, because nobody really knows what a constitutional crisis is. We're just numbing people down and normalizing the words until they mean nothing, because we aren't using them when they really matter. The details of this do not seem like they warrant calling it a constitutional crisis. When we actually face one, there won't be words we can use to describe it anymore, because we'…

> "When we actually face one" Can you give an example of a bona fide constitutional crisis?

The US is unique compared to basically every other country on Earth, so an actual constitutional crisis would take more here than in other countries.

A constitutional crisis would be if an entire generation of Americans across a majority of states were educated to hate the constitution. It would be if the military only served the president rather than the constitution, but in reality the military serves the constitution first and foremost and operates across many states. It would be if the supreme court was getting filled with judges that do not believe in the spirit of the constitution.

If someone does something that is actually against the constitution, it's not necessarily a crisis so long as it doesn't set a precedent to ignore the application of the constitution there in an unrecoverable momentum kind of way. That said, what Trump is doing here is neither against the constitution or even unprecedented.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#969

Post by ModernMech »

CMay wrote: post #968
ModernMech wrote: post #948

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "When we actually face one" Can you give an example of a bona fide constitutional crisis?

The US is unique compared to basically every other country on Earth, so an actual constitutional crisis would take more here than in other countries. A constitutional crisis would be if an entire generation of Americans across a majority of states were educated to hate the constitution. It would be if the military only served the president rather than the constitution, but in reality the military serves the constitut…

What if the current president didn't want to leave office after losing an election, and summoned a mob to prevent his successor from being certified by way of killing and/or terrorizing the Congress? Would that be a constitutional crisis if that happened or no? And if not why?

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#970

Post by e40 »

CMay wrote: post #967
e40 wrote: post #923

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DJT just talked about arresting Newsom. When asked why by reporters he said because he was a bad governor. We can bury our heads all we want, but this seems like a constitutional crisis to me. Said another way, hiw many signs do we have to ignore before we call it one?

What you're talking about is the rhetoric and politics surrounding the current times as opposed to the reality. Trump says a lot of things and he is a man of action, so that makes him a credible threat whenever he says he's going to do something. At the same time, it's pretty normal that whatever he does goes through a team of lawyers first. This is convenient for Trump, because anything he says that people get riled…

I agree with most of what you're saying. The only adjustment I'd make is the idea of a Trump's statements being a trial balloon. He says crazy things to see how people will react.

I agree that most of it is theater, for now. Some things have moved into reality, though. Ignoring judges orders. Sending US citizens to foreign jails. Going after media companies and extorting millions. Going after law firms and extorting millions. Before he did those things, they were just like all the other crazy things he said. Now, they're part of our reality.

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