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America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

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Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#961

Post by pjmlp »

almosthere wrote: post #632
epolanski wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We just don't want to employ people I don't think it's a matter of willingness, but simple global geo economics. There's places where producing A, whatever A is, is economically more efficient for countless reasons (energy prices, logistics, talent, bureaucracy, cost of labor, etc). That's not gonna change with whatever investment you want or tariff you put. But the thing I find more absurd, of all, is that I'd exp…

Cost of labor is the issue: china is enslaving people to work.

Seems pretty much like gig economy works in US.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#962

Post by riehwvfbk »

akircher wrote: post #845
mystified5016 wrote: post #788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's worth specifying even further: wealthy business owners don't want to pay what a US employee costs. Most jobs are wholly unsustainable. You have to job hop every couple of years to keep up with inflation because God knows you're not getting a raise that keeps you comfortable. This has led to churn and brain drain and the slow collapse of US domestic business. It's not that people don't want to work, it's…

The USA is number 1 in median disposable income at purchasing price parity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_c... This makes me think that it at least as much to do with high (unrealistic?) employee expectations as business stinginess.

There's always someone to quote some dry statistic that refutes the lived experience of... pretty much anyone. I wonder, what's the deal with people like this? Is the point to convince yourselves it's not that bad?

Yes, indeed, in the US even a poor person is relatively wealthier than someone in a war-torn African country. But humans are social creatures. We compare ourselves not with "the poor kids in Africa", but with the business owner in the adjacent zip code.

As for "unrealistic" expectations: why do business owners expect to take an unrealistic percentage off the top of everyone's labor? What made them worthy of such a huge amount?

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#963

Post by Der_Einzige »

riehwvfbk wrote: post #962
akircher wrote: post #845

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA is number 1 in median disposable income at purchasing price parity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_c... This makes me think that it at least as much to do with high (unrealistic?) employee expectations as business stinginess.

There's always someone to quote some dry statistic that refutes the lived experience of... pretty much anyone. I wonder, what's the deal with people like this? Is the point to convince yourselves it's not that bad? Yes, indeed, in the US even a poor person is relatively wealthier than someone in a war-torn African country. But humans are social creatures. We compare ourselves not with "the poor kids in Africa", but w…

You’re coping hard. The USA is (well, was before tariffs and related) so far ahead and richer than the rest of the “first world” that “europoor” is a correct term for those unfortunate souls who weren’t born there.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#964

Post by Der_Einzige »

42772827 wrote: post #672
NoTeslaThrow wrote: post #581

We never stopped manufacturing, we just stopped employing people. > We don’t have the infrastructure to manufacture That's trivially false given we're the second-largest manufacturer in the world. We just don't want to employ people, hence why we can't make an iphone or refine raw materials. The actual issue is that our business culture is antithetical to a healthy society. The idea of employing Americans is anti-bus…

The last time we got employers to care about employees it was because the unions dragged the bosses into the streets and beat the daylights out of them.

Unions are all conservative trump voters now. Labor isn’t left wing anymore. Arguably never really was (sorry coping anarchists and marxists, but usually the greedy monical wearing boss still leads to better outcomes than most “back against the wall” types we end up with when we let leftists have one iota of power.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#965

Post by Der_Einzige »

cratermoon wrote: post #218
pjc50 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People seem to want jobs with the macho kudos of manual labour, but with the physical comfort and salaries of email jobs, and I have some very bad news about that combination.

Those people need to watch a few episodes of Mike Rowe's "Dirty Jobs". Also people need to stop saying "unskilled labor". There is no such thing as labor without skills, outside a category in an archaic way of justifying low wages. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/u/unskilled-labor.asp

Mike Rowe is a shitty human being who delights and is gleeful about the idea of those folks in these same “dirty jobs” being paid less, forced to work more and harder with less safety equipment, and with less respect.

He hates the idea of people getting ahead in life with anything but the most extreme back breaking labor. That’s why he’s hardcore MAGA and makes such a big deal about trying to shit on folks who do desk jobs.

Fuck him, fuck his show, fuck the “good parts” where he tries to show you that being a garbage man is hard. If it’s really that skilled, the market will pay it as such.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#966

Post by Der_Einzige »

krapp wrote: post #153
franktankbank wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada and the US are long time allies and should be able to benefit from eachother without much hesitation. China is an adversary, big difference in posture.

Canada and the US are no longer allies.

It’s either allies or you get invaded by us. You have no nukes. This isn’t the Micheal Moore fantasy of “Canadian bacon” where it’s all some funny post 90s joke: Trump hates Canadians and will use military force to annex them if he perceives that it will go well.

I fully, 100% expect this to happen, at least to Greenland and a real chance of this happening to Canada.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#967

Post by Der_Einzige »

greenie_beans wrote: post #880

> Chinese workers work longer hours more happily and they’re physically faster with their hands; they can do things that American labor can’t. It’s years of accumulated skill, but it’s also a culture that is oriented around hard work and education that the United States no longer has. In China, there are no people who are too fat to work. The workers don’t storm off midshift, never to return to their job. You don’t h…

Ignoring this is like ignoring the prophecitc Vivek tweet that triggered conservatives for him pointing out DEI for white people.

This post is basically correct. The Chinese will accept being exploited way harder than we will! Good going communism!

This shit is why I will resist Marxist bullshit with all of my fiber forever. Fucking barracks communist no matter how hard they try to claim “nah we don’t support that”.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#968

Post by sigwinch »

Bender wrote: post #817
NoTeslaThrow wrote: post #581

We never stopped manufacturing, we just stopped employing people. > We don’t have the infrastructure to manufacture That's trivially false given we're the second-largest manufacturer in the world. We just don't want to employ people, hence why we can't make an iphone or refine raw materials. The actual issue is that our business culture is antithetical to a healthy society. The idea of employing Americans is anti-bus…

The actual issue is that our business culture is antithetical to a healthy society. I agree with the unhealthy society and your statement got me thinking. In regards to health what happens when global trade is shut down and a country can not make it's own pharmaceuticals for example? About 64% of people in the US over age 18 are on prescription drugs. Some of those drugs have really dangerous rebound effects if one s…

According to Brookings, 80% of drugs are imported.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/pharmaceutical-tariffs-ho...

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#969

Post by jvanderbot »

jghn wrote: post #117

The other day I saw the results of a poll [1] where 80% of Americans thought the *country* would be better off if more Americans worked in factories. However, only 20% of Americans thought that *they* would be better off if more Americans worked in factories. It was surprisingly bipartisan. In other words, people like the idea of this, but no one actually wants this. [1] https://www.ft.com/content/845917ed-41a5-449f-…

Great, so we have enormous consensus and prestige for 60 million willing participants in the re- industrialization of USA. What's the problem again?

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#970

Post by riehwvfbk »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #963
riehwvfbk wrote: post #962

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's always someone to quote some dry statistic that refutes the lived experience of... pretty much anyone. I wonder, what's the deal with people like this? Is the point to convince yourselves it's not that bad? Yes, indeed, in the US even a poor person is relatively wealthier than someone in a war-torn African country. But humans are social creatures. We compare ourselves not with "the poor kids in Africa", but w…

You’re coping hard. The USA is (well, was before tariffs and related) so far ahead and richer than the rest of the “first world” that “europoor” is a correct term for those unfortunate souls who weren’t born there.

OK, let's all celebrate King Bezos shutting down Venice to celebrate his union with his plastic appliance. The suffering of his serfs is necessary to enable this show of excess.
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