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"Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

whitehouse.gov

961–970 of 1001 posts

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#961

This is obviously alarming, and if used to disregard the Judiciary's interpretation of law, unconstitutional. But I'm puzzled by the exemption of the Federal Reserve and FOMC. He's previously beefed with them, and would presumably find the additional leverage useful. Why explicitly exclude them?

The way the US political system works is that the legislative passes laws, the executive enforces laws, and the judicial interprets laws and ensures the constitutionality/legality of it all. This is relevant because in this scenario each body plays a critical role, but they 'beat' each other in different ways, almost like a game of rock, paper, scissors. The executive beats the legislative by vetoing laws, the judici…

> So nothing needs to be "used" to disregard the judiciary's interpretation of laws - it simply doesn't matter what the executive's interpretation of a law - that's the role of the judiciary.

Which is important considering that Chevron doesn't exist anymore, where the judiciary found itself out of their water, so to speak, about how to implement the law (note I say implement here, meaning that what the law says, the org does, but the details or ambiguous terms are up to the org). So, this actually re-implements Chevron in a forceful way, because it says that the judiciary, which tasked again with overseeing how laws are implemented by the executive whenever they are ambiguous.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#962
“At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it?-- Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never!--All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years.

At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.”

https://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/lyceum...

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#963
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It required the judicial to completely defer to the executive branch in cases where the laws around executive departments (generally relating to the the limits of their regulatory power/authority) were ambiguous. Why doesn’t congress do its job and write laws that do things?

The way regulatory authority works is that Congress writes laws that offer general guidance, and then regulatory body creates rules around that guidance. It can enable them to quickly react to changing scenarios, and also offer greater expertise or more detail than may be reasonable to expect of Congress. The issues arises when it's unclear if actions and guidance are aligned. For a contemporary example, part of the…

> The end result is that executive departments will have a much harder time overstepping the bounds of authority granted to them by Congress.

You could’ve fooled me.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#964

If you're wondering why the President can essentially write his own laws when that's not how our system is supposed to work, it's because the President gets extra powers whenever we're in a state of national emergency. We've been in a state of national emergency since 1979.

The national emergency declared in 1979, against Iran, was done under the IEEPA which grants the President the power to block transactions and freeze assets against foreign threats. It doesn't grant the power to make laws.

You're delegating powers to the President that would normally require an act of congress. The sanctions against Iran are a relatively tame example, there's 46 other national emergencies that give the President far more power.

Here's some good reading:

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/27/democrats-biden-som...

They successfully argued the President can just attack other countries whenever he wants, so long as it's part of fighting "terrorism".

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#965

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congress makes lots of rules about how the executive can wield power: * FOIA tells the executive branch when/how to share documents. * APA tells executive agencies what they have to do to make a rule. * Congress gives line item budgets, and the executive doesn't get to reassign funds. * Executive agencies must submit to audits from GAO (within congress) It's perfectly reasonable for congress to limit how executive ag…

> It's perfectly reasonable for congress to limit how executive agency heads can be hired/fired too. In some limited employment law sense , maybe. The question is who gives these people orders? Who do they work for? And the answer can’t be themselves.

It's akin to how the board of directors doesn't let the CEO fire a companies auditors.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#966

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because including them would cause an immediate worldwide economic crisis as everyone pulls their money from US bonds.

Why aren't they pre-emptively doing that?

Because Treasuries are the foundation of the global financial system, and there's basically nothing that could replace them completely.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#967
post #686
post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This EO eliminates the concept of an illegal order since the law would be whatever the executive interprets it to be. Isn't this exactly how it works? They interpret it and that stands unless challenged in court.

The nuance here, based on the EO, is rank file and employees of these agencies must now rely on the sole interpretation of the law by either the president or the AG instead of themselves. These _were_ independent agencies who handled their own interpretation of the law. If you combine this EO with the Supreme Court immunity decision, there may very well be a situation where a rank and file employee acts illegally bas…

The fact that the President was granted that immunity in the first place by a so-called "conservative" Supreme Court should make it abundantly clear that the "conservative" movement fully intends to take it as far in the wrong direction as they feel they need to. The goal? to secure absolute power and therefore a future in which the ultra-wealthy rule America with an iron fist, and dissent can be crushed easily. The techniques are all fascist, but the film Metropolis is the end game, not another Holocaust -- but if a good old genocide helps rally the voter base, then so be it.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#968
post #941

SCOTUS bears a tremendous amount of responsibility for Trump's power grab. Its immunity-granting ruling means that it's extremely difficult to stop a President who decides to simply ignore the law. Even if you think Trump is a "good guy" who is "doing the right thing" , he's setting precedents whereby a President who is a "bad guy" could turn dictator, and then what? Literally the only option is impeachment, but the…

I'm not sure that SCOTUS's immunity ruling is all that important here. It mainly served to delay Trump's federal criminal trials until it was too late to get anywhere. In the absence of that ruling, a president could still -- in collusion with their VP -- obtain immunity by: 1. While in office, relying on the DoJ's policy of never indicting a sitting president. (Not to mention the fact that they control the DoJ.) 2.…

It’s important because it gives him 100% immunity from all actions that even slightly be adjacent to “executive branch” . Almost unlimited spectrum of activities are allowed including killing Americans for no good reason. Short of him walking out the door of the WH and gunning down a tour bus of tourists with his own machine gun, the SCOTUS gave him cover to say “whoops, I thought that was ok”

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#969

This will probably get flagged, but if you read this, spent a few minutes trying to understand the gravity of this specific EO. Every federal employee even in independent agents must and will jump when Trump says so. Even if he asks them to do something illegal (close the congress! Jail a democrat!), they must follow his orders. Because HIS interpretation of the law cannot be superseded.

If he wanted to fire anyone who disagreed with him, this EO wouldn’t have been necessary. With very few exceptions, executive branch employees serve at the pleasure of the President. This is how it is, how it has been, and is entirely consistent with the Constitution. So, if not that, then why issue this EO? First of all, it’s a statement: “Resistance to this agenda from within the executive branch will not be effect…

You’re wrong, many jobs are protected by congressional law. The executive branch can’t do just anything he wants. Sure some agencies he can but now all. This shit was decided a long time ago and there are several laws covering it. Congress is not doing their job and impeaching and firing this president. GOP don’t care if he’s a criminal as long as he is their criminal

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#970
post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine finding absolutely no issue with an EO that uses phrases like “so-called independent regulatory agencies”. This is what Germans must have felt like in 1933.

What branch of government do these independent agencies exist in, and where is that defined in the Constitution?

Try reading my comment again.
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