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TikTok goes dark in the US

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Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#961

Post by einrealist »

whimsicalism wrote: post #909
einrealist wrote: post #902

It is absurd that users are not angry at TikTok for not protecting their data. Instead, TikTok weaponized the user base and made them belief that it is a free speech problem while they collected swaths of data and allowed it to leave US jurisdiction, into the hands of the Chinese government. And Democrats just sucked at messaging. Its not a "TikTok ban". The message should have been about data protection. And yes, it…

tiktok data is in the US, Malaysia, and Singapore.

The US government claims otherwise. And even if data is not flowing to China directly, the threat is there from a legal point of view. Data is leaving US jurisdiction anyway. And China could force ByteDance to hand over data that is stored in Malaysia and Singapore.

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#962

Post by soheil »

How is it that people still don't see thru this violation of their free speech right?

TikTok got banned for one and only one reason: to silence the narrative around a 70 year old war.

Sources:

- ADL: "we have a major major major generational problem" ... "we have a tiktok problem" http://web.archive.org/web/20231116180709/https://media.mehr...

- US Representative (MIT alum): everyone in the U.S. Congress "has an AIPAC person" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2reaGhLnYI

False claims for the reason for the ban:

- Tiktok has great content and a great algorithm to help you find it (that's a good thing)

- Tiktok spies and collects data, such as scraping your clipboard, network (Apple iOS sandboxing prevents any app from doing so without explicit user permission - technical audience here shouldn't fall for this one easily)

- Tiktok collects face recognition data on citizens worldwide (anyone scraping Instagram can do that - technical audience here shouldn't fall for this one easily)

- Tiktok is addictive, and designed to be (so is Instagram, and?)

- Tiktok is cultural expression, and contributes to people's feeling of identity (good; the more diverse cultural expressions the better)

- Tiktok provides a platform for critical thinking and debate (not really a bad thing if you think about it)

- Tiktok contributed to Brexit, and similar political crises in the EU (so does X)

- Tiktok is part of the Chinese 100 year marathon strategy (vague scare tactic)

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#963

Post by locallost »

moviet wrote: post #695

(Perspective from an American) Information is the gold of the 21st century. Whoever controls the flow of information has all the wealth and all the power. Therefore, data is the greatest currency in the world. This outcome was never intended to happen, but ByteDance is taking a chance that the American government will relent. We’ll see in a few months who wins the stalemate. TikTok has an immense amount of cultural p…

It's a fine point of view, except we've been exposed to decades of propaganda how the Chinese Government is awful for controlling the flow of information, especially from the outside. I have a feeling the West is in a trap of its own making, it will either be consistent and allow what it asks others to allow, or will lose face because everything it allegedly stood for turned out to be BS.

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#964

Post by megous »

velcrovan wrote: post #787
bakuninsbart wrote: post #725

As a European, I find it quite outrageous to demand a company be sold to the US because it is too successful and valuable to be foreign-held. It is the old-school imperialist school of thought. If you think Bytedance is harming Americans, despite following american law, then amend the rules for social media companies. Or at least be honest enough to say: "The free market is great, but only if we hold all the cards".

> demand a company be sold to the US because it is too successful and valuable to be foreign-held This is a reductive and misleading analysis. The US has already prohibited foreign entities from holding broadcast/common carrier licenses, or from owning significant chunks of equity in holders of those licenses [1]. It should be kind of obvious why a country would not want their biggest media providers to be foreign-ow…

> obvious why a country would not want their biggest media providers to be foreign-owned

Tt's obvious why the state would not want it. It's not obvious why "country" would not want it.

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#966

Post by wonnage »

margalabargala wrote: post #843
mardifoufs wrote: post #699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I guess China had it right with its great firewall then, right? I mean you have to protect your national interest against foreign corporations. I didn't know Americans would agree with CCP policies like this.

From the perspective of the Chinese government, yes. I would say America has as much right to be upset at China blocking American websites within its borders, as China has to be upset at the US blocking Tiktok within its borders.

Is China upset about this? This just seems to be a huge American self-own (pun intended).

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#967

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

scarab92 wrote: post #728
moviet wrote: post #695

(Perspective from an American) Information is the gold of the 21st century. Whoever controls the flow of information has all the wealth and all the power. Therefore, data is the greatest currency in the world. This outcome was never intended to happen, but ByteDance is taking a chance that the American government will relent. We’ll see in a few months who wins the stalemate. TikTok has an immense amount of cultural p…

I doubt this has anything to do with "data". I generally view "data is the new oil" arguments as a sign that the journalist doesn't know what they are talking about, especially if they can't characterise what data they are referring to or why it is valuable. More likely, this is about control of the recommendation algorithm, and therefore control of the narrative.

I think the difference between these apps is that in China the "recommendation algorithm" is that the wrong sort of people just go missing. There's less heavy lifting for the app to do. That's why people like it more, it itself has a simpler agenda: make people enjoy using it.

In the US, for the most part, the app must do both surveillance and coercion, which is why the kids prefer the Chinese app.

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#968

Post by giantrobot »

quotemstr wrote: post #791
moviet wrote: post #695

(Perspective from an American) Information is the gold of the 21st century. Whoever controls the flow of information has all the wealth and all the power. Therefore, data is the greatest currency in the world. This outcome was never intended to happen, but ByteDance is taking a chance that the American government will relent. We’ll see in a few months who wins the stalemate. TikTok has an immense amount of cultural p…

> Whoever controls the flow of information has all the wealth and all the power Control of information is not a legitimate function of the state. The only real reason to ban TikTok or any other platform is establishing control over narratives, and the government must never in a free society put a thumb on the scale of ideas. So what if the Chinese can boost this message or that message? Is our society so fragile it'l…

> Is our society so fragile it'll fall apart if people are exposed to the wrong ideas?

This reductionism to "exposure to ideas" is absolutely absurd. TikTok and any other algorithmic feed isn't problematic because it exposes anyone to anything. They're problematic because those feeds can be used to actively shape behavior.

Shaping behavior is not very difficult if you have a lot of information about someone and control of what they see for hours a day. If shaping behavior didn't work no social media company would make the billions of dollars that they do. TikTok fads wouldn't exist if it was just a simple exposure to ideas.

TikTok in particular is worth targeting because of the way state security laws work in China. There's no legal issues with the state apparatus accessing company data. There's no judicial review. The state just has access to companies' back ends.

Since we know social media feeds can shape personal behavior and China can exert any control they want over Chinese companies, it's not a logical leap to realize a state hostile to interests of the North America and Europe having control over something people use for hours a day is a bad thing.

There's a whole cohort of the population for who TikTok is their primary source of "news". Their world view is shaped by what's presented to them. They're not "exposed to ideas" but targeted with specific narratives. Because all users have different targeting you may never see the same sort of feed as the person sitting next to you.

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#970

Post by yason »

If I hadn't long time ago lost touch with the idea that Internet is a new global, rebellious space that transcends all limited, conservative, slow-moving nations, and that I can offer or use a service running wherever from wherever else I might be sitting as long as it's all connected to the internet, I'd be heartbroken to see services being stopped or driven away from within the borders of a certain geological area. But that train left the station so long time ago that the rails have all rusted since.

I can only expect the bar to geopartition Internet services due to financial, political, and militarian whims to go lower and lower until eventually there's no global internet left.

In any case, I'm glad I could see the 90's.

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