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Priced out of home ownership

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Re: Priced out of home ownership

#961
post #905

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t know why prices are still up though – if interest rates being high was making housing unaffordable, one would expect prices to be down. We printed ~25% of all money in existence since 2020 so that obv means more diluted money chasing scarce housing (applies to everyone worldwide) High real estate prices might be the new norm :(

Why would money printing increase housing prices but not wages? Why would money printing postpone its effect on prices until after interest rates increased?

> Why would money printing increase housing prices but not wages?

Because most of the freshly printed money wasn't immediately used to increase the demand for consumer goods. Instead, it only kept consumer goods demand about neutral, until the summer of 2022.

Without inflation in consumer goods, most businesses don't have increased profits, and no incentive to try to hire more people, which kept wages down.

Instead, the extra money found it's way into assets, pumping up the stock market and housing market.

That started changing in 2022, as inflation hit (which SHOULD have surprised nobody). But the inflation was kept in check by increasing the interest rate.

The increase in the interest rate stopped the amount of money from continuing to grow and even fall slightly. But not nearly enough to reach pre-covid levels.

That means that there is still a lot of excess money in the system slushing around. As long as the real interest rate on bank deposits is still low, people are not tempted to keep them as deposits. So the money stays in assets, maintaining the high price.

> Why would money printing postpone its effect on prices until after interest rates increased?

I'm assuming you mean consumer prices here, not housing prices. Consumer prices stayed low during the pandemic, since people generally reduced their consumption, especially the consumption of services (restaurants, entertainment, etc). A lot of "regular" people paid down credit card debt or increased the size of their savings account.

In 2022, that changed. "Regular people" started to spend more of their savings again, and this caused inflation to rise. As inflation was going up, the fed (and other central banks) slowly increased the interest rate, but not quickly enough to stop the sharp rise in aggregate demand. (And war in Ukraine and continued lockdown in China didn't help either, nor did various initiatives to re-shore production of anything from microchips to ventilators, or for that matter the huge investments of capital currently going into AI infrastructure).

And as demand pushed inflation up, that lead to some increase in the demand for labor. So even if the salaries haven't kept up with inflation, inflation definitely has been increased by the increase in salaries.

Naively, one might expect that the inflationary pressure will cease once aggregate inflation reaches 25% relative to 2020.

And if you wonder why wages haven't kept up. I think this can be explained by a weakening of the demand side of consumer goods, driven by various inefficiencies in how capital allocation, due to the cost of building new and robust supply chains, due to the situation in Ukraine/Russia and China and AI investments etc (as listed above, too).

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#962
post #869

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In December there was an expectation that the FED would do 7 interest rate reductions this year. Now we are down to 1 - maybe. I think a lot of people in the market are still holding on with a strong expectation that the interest rates will go down. Personally, I think high interest rate environments are better for most people - it compresses asset prices and adds more value to a salary. But it will take some years f…

There's a huge difference in rates and how it affects markets between Canada and the US. I'd assume most US based loans have a lock in period of 25-30 years, but is basically unheard of to have Canadian rates locked in longer than 5 years for fixed mortgages. That means there's a bunch of mortgage renewals that will dramatically affect the amount of disposal income for these individuals that locked in low rates a few…

My guess is that Canada, like the ECB, are also influenced by the FEDs rates because, you know, FX.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#963
post #942

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What many people seem to not even know, is that the theory only holds true under competitive free market conditions and falls apart under captive/uncompetitive markets. Why would the law of supply and demand fall apart under captive/uncompetitive markets? A captive or uncompetitive market may impact the quantity of a good or service available and/or the quantity of a good or service willing to be purchased at a giv…

> Why would the law of supply and demand fall apart under captive/uncompetitive markets? For the law to hold perfectly and describe prices, everyone in the market (both buyers and sellers) must be a "price taker". That is, the amount anyone supplies(sells)/demands(buys) is entirely a function of the going market price of whats being traded, and no one believes they will influence prices. (If anyone isn't a "price tak…

> Thus price is no longer determined purely by the market supply/demand of the good, but also profit margin of the monopolist.

In fact, the price is "purely determined" by supply/demand in the scenario you gave. The monopolist is using their monopoly position to create artificial scarcity, thus driving up prices. This is consistent with the law of supply and demand.

> would that indicate the world has a water shortage?

Impossible to say without more information. What is happening around the 2L for sale? Are you rejecting the sale based on price (i.e. preventing price from rising), instead selecting who gets it using some non-priced-based mechanism, such as a lottery or first-come, first-served? If yes, then that indicates that there is a shortage. If it is sold using a price-based mechanism, then clearly not. That is a "normally functioning" market.

Once the water is all used up and there is no remaining water supply, where no amount of money can buy more (i.e. preventing from rising), then perhaps you might say that there is a shortage. However, in the real world, absent of some other factor (e.g. price gouging laws), price will keep rising until you are compelled to make more of that water available, so that still wouldn't be a shortage situation.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#964

I don’t get articles like this. It’s arguably a better financial decision to NOT buy a home, and park your downpayment in a broad based index fund. I get that there are arguments for or against, but there doesn’t seem to be a clear financial advantage to home ownership. So, what’s the big fuss about? Just pay rent and carry on? Surely, there are better things to focus on?

No-one can kick you out of your own home because they want to rent to someone they can charge more. No-one can tell you you can’t change the wallpaper in your own home, or remodel the bathroom, or get a dog. Not everything is a purely financial decision. A home is primarily a place to live, not an investment opportunity.

Not sure how long the parent has rented for but there is definitely a point, especially if you have children, where you realize having your own home is really important so you can express yourself without fear of eviction.

I always wanted to build a home gym and have a workshop, I have these things now, I never could before, I'm happier now than I was before, it was something I really wanted to do with my life, rent doesn't allow you to do those things, most of the time anyway.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#965

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite features of mortgage vs rent is that mortgage is constant. So, in 10/yr I'm still paying $2000/mo while rents have moved to $3200/mo

This is a creation of the US federal government — a 30 year fixed makes no sense without government intervention, since that is an absurd level of interest rate risk the bank would need to take. I don't know of any other country with 30 year fixed mortgages — most have something similar to the 5/1 ARM as the main option. edit: Seems like Germany has fixed mortgages but makes it hard to refinance.

Belgium and The Netherlands have it too, though it's optional. Most mortgages have a 30 year runtime with a 10 year fixed rate. The longer your fixed rate, the higher the rate becomes.

For the Netherlands: While it differs per bank, legally you're allowed to pay up to 10% of your mortgage extra per year (some banks offer higher rates, I can do 20% for example) without extra costs. When the rate changes (due to going from fixed to variable, or variable with a large change in a year) you're allowed to pay back as much as you want, without extra costs.

If you want to pay back more/faster, the bank calculates a fee ("loss of income due to lost interest payments") that you have to pay, which is still cheaper than just doing your regular payments.

The above statement also applies if you want to refinance if, for example, your home went up in value. They can and will drop your rate but you have to pay a fine. That being said, in the past, when rate drops were really large, you could go to a different bank, have them take over your mortgage pay the fine for you just so they can get you to come to them (though I'm assuming they're no longer so keen on that).

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#966
post #161

I live in Portugal and here the situation is outright ridiculous. 1. There are a ridiculous amount of abandoned properties, when I walk the streets of major cities, sometimes more than half of the buildings even in expensive areas are boarded-up. 2. Meanwhile I am afraid of being homeless soon, I lost my job recently, and the unemployment benefit I can receive is literally half of my rent. Thing is, there is no "wors…

I'm sorry to recommend you that, but i have experience with homelessness. You have two temporary solutions: - join a group of squatters (hopefully you already know someone) until you get your bearings. The less ideological ones often squat old industrial properties, or long-abandoned houses (its rough in winter, but in Portugal you should be fine). You might meet some Urbex guys, they're nice and always fine with fin…

> The less ideological ones often squat old industrial properties

Where do the more ideological ones go? and what ideologies are we talking about here

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#967
post #274

People intuitively jump to the conclusion that the problem is caused by a lack of building. While more building would help, a lack of it isn't the main cause of this problem. Ask yourself, do Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the US, Britain, Ireland, etc, all have the same inability to build or is there maybe some other common cause? In my view this is symptomatic of a more fundamental issue - global asset price infla…

I liked the explanation by Gary Economics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNUNR2NZvFM

It posits that the high prices are caused by rich people parking their money in houses. It explains many problems with a few variables.

While it's not the whole picture, it explains why the middle class is getting squeezed out of house ownership. And why stimulus package didn't much help.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#969
post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ask yourself, do Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the US, Britain, Ireland, etc, all have the same inability to build or is there maybe some other common cause? In the UK, we have an issue with immigration that nobody wants to speak about. The birth rate in the UK is 1.49 in 2022 [1], meaning that housing demand should be going down. We build houses to last, and yet there is a massive shortage - why? In 2023 the ONS…

UK has massively high house prices - at least in "desirable" areas, and some not so desirable ones where it's possible to commute to work in a desirable area. That doesn't necessarily reflect a shortage, it also reflects availability of money - and therefore the market bearing higher prices. It also reflects the unevenness of the UK economy: the expensive and unaffordable housing is mostly in and around London (where…

If actions speak louder than words then the UK government is not massively anti-immigration. I would say that devolution of power in Britain has ensured that governments are not actually that powerful and unelected authorities with views of their own, hold sway with opinions which do not reflect the electorate. Polls suggest that a majority of people would like reduced migration. Problems abound.

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/mi...

I agree with you about the reforms but basically Brits live beyond their means and need to lower expectations or face a very uncertain future. The NHS is a good example. Demand is literally infinite. We're all going to die and likely suffer an ailment demanding treatment so how can a health service which fails to match that hard reality, survive. As you say, we can use stick and carrot to attenuate demand but it's finally going to crack IMO as was prophetically illustrated so tragically in the pandemic.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#970

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multi-faceted and interrelated: a lot of housing would become a less attractive investment vehicle if near-substitutes were more plentiful. An overseas investor buying a Vancouver condo assumes that the asset will have high resale value (in addition to its use value as, e.g., a rental or airbnb). But in a saner world, housing would depreciate in value over time in proportion to its use and maintenance, like other dur…

but the land it's built on is an appreciating asset.

Purchasing a single piece of land with the expectation that it will increase in value, is similar in many ways as to do so with single stocks.

Land and stock tend to go up in value. But land also sometimes go to 0, just like stocks.

With the booming American car industry in the 50's and 60's, who would have thought that houses in Detroit could go from having a premium price in 1970 to be sold for $1 40 years later?

Who's to say SF isn't going to be next?

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