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FedNow Is Live

federalreserve.gov

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Re: FedNow Is Live

#961

Post by Frummy »

pc86 wrote: post #957
Frummy wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In front of your eyes: TSO-ISPF for everything. IDz for the 5 seconds per month that code is actually written Test env: Separate permanent envs. From playground where nothing matters, env with some fake data in similar databases and variants of all systems, to mirror of prod with anonymised data, then prod There are dummy online banking web interfaces What sets it apart is that the operating system is painful to use…

I'd rather not have "off-road improvisational innovation" with the nation's banking infrastructure, thanks. If that's what you want to do go write another JS framework or static site generator, don't work at a bank.

Your gut reaction is disgust and I don't blame you. You could do without the insults, however. The "nation's banking infrastructure" is outdated and messy. There is no chance in the entire world to upgrade it or clean it up if we the workers are not equipped with the power to do so. A first step could be informational transparency, I would for example really like read access on other systems in the bank and not just my own. Truthfully, separation of duties in this case is more of a controlling function and less of a security function. Of course I care about security, we all do. But let's not stifle the workers that can change the system from within in such low risk work that it's bordering on fear of change. Don't insult me again on something you know nothing about and haven't seen with your own eyes.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#962

Post by kylehotchkiss »

vxNsr wrote: post #843
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Wire Transfers have been the official fast settlement method in US for a while. They have a fixed fee associated but given the larger transaction amounts that people generally use it for, it's not a bad thing. Everyday consumers have their silly apps for money transfer (PayPal, Cash app, iMessage Cash). Other than that, people are just used to transactions taking 2-3 days and over drafting because they made anoth…

ACH has been next day for like 2 years now at least with every bank and employer I’ve used. I’m sure there’s some banks that didn’t join the next day system, but I haven’t experienced it. Then again being part of a credit union has lost a lot of its allure these last few years, so maybe that’s where you’d see that sort of thing more.

I just received a next-day ACH via Apple savings to my credit union. CUs still have their allure, I'll never get over Wells Fargo charging me fees for minimum account balances when I was 18 and working for minimum wage. What a sour taste to leave in a young customers mouth and good way to shoo them away once they start gaining some value.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#963

Post by docmars »

orlp wrote: post #612
qingcharles wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right in this scenario, and people need to understand the First Amendment doesn't protect "criminal" speech. OTOH, plenty of sites have been canceled simply due to their fucked-up viewpoints that are protected speech.

If KiwiFarms hosted/was responsible for illegal activities, then it is up to law enforcement to deal with it, not payment processors. It is not desirable that private infrastructure companies such as Visa or MasterCard are effectively playing as judge, jury and executioner in modern society, even if (sometimes) they are happening to do the right thing.

Agreed, especially under the guise of boycotting ideas they don't like.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#964

Post by fragmede »

hathawsh wrote: post #542
Ao7bei3s wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does a development environment look like, both architecturally and simply visually? Like: Do developers spin up entire fake economies with two banks and the fed on their latop, or is it all incremental changes to individual microservices in a big permanent test setup? Do other banks / service providers / the fed run test instances of their systems with fake money for other companies to do interop with, like a "g…

Once the service provider is connected to the Fed (a somewhat complex process), it's normal software development. The client uses either MQI or JMS to send and receive messages; the messages are essentially ISO20022 XML. The development environment could be anything (any OS, any IDE). You interface those messages with your system of accounts. The Fed also provides a simple web UI and a testing network where you can t…

What is normal though? From the perspective of a hardware engineer, from the perspective of a contractor or small company developer, from the perspective of a developer at a medium-sized firm, and from the perspective of an engineer at a FAANG, what is normal is different. Twitter famously doesn't have a dev environment and that's not a bad thing. That's because coordinating umpteen teams to have an actually useful dev-dev and qa-dev env costs more than it's worth, in their eyes. And then, what does normal look like depends on when, too. Local dev envs looked a lot different before Docker came on the scene.

So back to the question, what's the dev env look like? :)

Re: FedNow Is Live

#965

Post by unmole »

sznio wrote: post #852
mattsan wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to read this twice - is it really not like in the UK? Is this the first US implementation of "Faster Payments"? Sure people in the UK sometimes use PayPal, Revolut, but most of the time its always just a friend gives (and you save on your banking app) their bank account number and sort code, and you instantly send it across. edit: with no fee

Poland has BLIK, which links your bank account number to your phone number. Then, just send a transfer to the phone number instead of punching in the 26 digits of the account number. And if you don't want to share your phone number, you can use a temporary six digit code instead.

> 26 digits of the account number

That seems rather excessive. Why on earth are Polish bank accounts so long?

Re: FedNow Is Live

#966

Post by carlosjobim »

Goronmon wrote: post #932
carlosjobim wrote: post #886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You attach for example a PDF file with the invoice, including bank account number etc. The person receiving the invoice logs into his or her online bank and pays it. Since decent online banks will let you save the details of recipients, in practice it is very smooth and uncomplicated. You could also receive and send invoices by fax, and there's nothing wrong with that.

In many cases that is just the bank printing a check that is mailed to the recipient. Sure, it works. But it's super slow and archaic. In the same way some people think people writing personal checks works, but others think its ridiculous.

That's not how the invoices I receive or send are. They are real invoices with specification, sum to be paid, who to pay it to and date to pay. So let's take a bog-standard example: Your phone bill. Get the invoice in your e-mail, see what amount they want, log in to the bank, select them as the recipient, fill in the sum and paste the reference number. Assuming you're saving recipients in your online bank.

There's nothing slow or archaic about that, at least I haven't noticed that after a few thousand invoices sent and received by e-mail. With modern banks you can even make batch payment of invoices by uploading a csv file.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#967

Post by pc86 »

Frummy wrote: post #961
pc86 wrote: post #957

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather not have "off-road improvisational innovation" with the nation's banking infrastructure, thanks. If that's what you want to do go write another JS framework or static site generator, don't work at a bank.

Your gut reaction is disgust and I don't blame you. You could do without the insults, however. The "nation's banking infrastructure" is outdated and messy. There is no chance in the entire world to upgrade it or clean it up if we the workers are not equipped with the power to do so. A first step could be informational transparency, I would for example really like read access on other systems in the bank and not just…

It was the royal you, so was not an insult.

I think anything that could be appropriately described as infrastructure could also be described as outdated and messy, so that's not necessarily a reason in and of itself to let people experiment on banking infrastructure. Are software engineers (again, the type who end up working for the federal government and banks and government contractors) any more qualified to experiment on this stuff than people who have working in banking and finance?

Re: FedNow Is Live

#968

Post by playingalong »

unmole wrote: post #965
sznio wrote: post #852

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland has BLIK, which links your bank account number to your phone number. Then, just send a transfer to the phone number instead of punching in the 26 digits of the account number. And if you don't want to share your phone number, you can use a temporary six digit code instead.

> 26 digits of the account number That seems rather excessive. Why on earth are Polish bank accounts so long?

The IBAN 26 digit system is multinational/global.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#969

Post by all2 »

callalex wrote: post #826
all2 wrote: post #651

If the IRS was used against political opponents, this will be too. I think this is a case where setting a standard and requiring payment processors to adhere would have been a much better idea. More centralizing of power is not what we need right now.

Can you point me to any examples of the IRS being “used against political opponents”? Please specify who the opponents of the IRS are in your examples.

I was thinking specifically of the Tea Party targeting during the Obama years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy

Re: FedNow Is Live

#970

Post by krapp »

all2 wrote: post #969
callalex wrote: post #826

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point me to any examples of the IRS being “used against political opponents”? Please specify who the opponents of the IRS are in your examples.

I was thinking specifically of the Tea Party targeting during the Obama years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy

The first several paragraphs of that page imply that targeting didn't actually occur, at least not in the way the Tea Party claimed. Both liberal and conservative groups were selected for scrutiny by the IRS. James Comey - a Republican and FBI Director at the time - found no evidence of wrongdoing.
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