Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I wish GPT4 had never happened

chaudhry.notion.site

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

961–970 of 1001 posts

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#961

Post by fnl »

HyperSane wrote: post #450

The fact that so many people fear loss of income as a result of better AI is a real indictment of our economic system. A better system that more fairly distributed economic productivity would make people welcome better AI because they could be confident it would make everyone wealthier instead of just a few people rich enough to be Goa'uld.

I am currently reading the late Daly’s 2014 book “From Uneconomic Growth to a Steady-State Economy” that seems to address exactly your concern for a more fairly distributed economic system. A real eye-opener that would require us to change three things to build a more sustainable economy and future:

(1) stop fractional reserve banking and nationalize money again to avoid the very quantitative easing/tightening fiasco we are seeing today, (2) measure economic progress with a quality of life index instead of GDP to accurately reflect the cost of products/resources and put more emphasis on life quality improving services, and (3) replace the current international trade rules and system run by the IMF with a more equitable system where capital costs are accurately reflected at the source to avoid “outsourcing” problems to third world continues.

While all three changes are difficult to achieve in our current society, I am amazed at how clearly Daly’s life work can outline how we could build a much more sustainable economy and healthier society. Maybe his amazing last summary book is of interest to others on HN.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#962

Post by imtringued »

fnl wrote: post #961
HyperSane wrote: post #450

The fact that so many people fear loss of income as a result of better AI is a real indictment of our economic system. A better system that more fairly distributed economic productivity would make people welcome better AI because they could be confident it would make everyone wealthier instead of just a few people rich enough to be Goa'uld.

I am currently reading the late Daly’s 2014 book “From Uneconomic Growth to a Steady-State Economy” that seems to address exactly your concern for a more fairly distributed economic system. A real eye-opener that would require us to change three things to build a more sustainable economy and future: (1) stop fractional reserve banking and nationalize money again to avoid the very quantitative easing/tightening fiasco…

I am sorry but fractional reserve banking isn't the problem, nor is debt based money the problem. You can't solve the problem without allowing interest rates to be negative when people want to pay off their debts at a faster rate than people wanting to spend off their credits/deposits.

The problem is quite simple. Money has no maturity but debt has a deadline. This asymmetry causes problems regardless of whether you have a gold standard, full reserve fiat or fractional reserve fiat.

In other words, if you can fix the asymmetry or eliminate the zero lower bound it doesn't actually matter what form your money takes.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#963

Post by __pache__ »

webmobdev wrote: post #918
cambaceres wrote: post #767

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m still a high earner so I’m fine. I still have approximately $7500/month after my taxes are paid. That’s a lot since all medical care, 1 year parental leave, my kids education from kindergarten through high school etc are “free”, e.g. paid with my taxes. My point was not to complain but to say to the guy that claims that we need a new system with more wealth distribution that those systems already exist. There are…

You made a good point. But I don't think people are advocating taxing people like you but the super rich. The disparity between the few super-rich and the poor is so huge in many countries. Wealth that is not being put to use by the super-rich is money wasted. All this hoarded wealth could be put to so much good.

Why is it bad some people are extremely wealthy?

I'm sorry but it's just true that a few people are incredible. Elon musk. Steve jobs. These people are basically worth infinity, their potential and vision is extremely useful to humanity.

Sorry a few make it to the NBA, but everyone can try.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#965

Post by antifa »

netbioserror wrote: post #86
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #29

The big oversight here is that Priya does not want a job , what Priya wants is an income . The point of life is not working, the point of life is to enjoy it. We should strive to eliminate as many jobs as we possibly can, the less we have to work the better it is. To make this possible we need to find a way to a new system that doesn't directly link labour with income .

What a profoundly naive opinion. Most people find meaning, fulfillment, even contentment in working, especially when the problems are engaging and the solutions produce value. Many people claim their lives would be better if they never had to work, but they are bullshitting themselves with childhood naivete. Not working is a sucking void of boredom, nihilism, hedonism, and despair. I've been through some of that befo…

> Most people find meaning, fulfillment, even contentment in working, especially when the problems are engaging and the solutions produce value.

The opposite, actually. Most people, for whom a reasonable fulfilling job exists, do not have the opportunity to work such a job. AI does not promise to increase the availability of fulfilling and contentful jobs, meanwhile the cost of living will continue to rise with no end in site while wage stagnation continues another decade.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#966

Post by 876978095789789 »

kypro wrote: post #714
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #29

The big oversight here is that Priya does not want a job , what Priya wants is an income . The point of life is not working, the point of life is to enjoy it. We should strive to eliminate as many jobs as we possibly can, the less we have to work the better it is. To make this possible we need to find a way to a new system that doesn't directly link labour with income .

Good luck trying to tax AGI companies 95% of profits. Perhaps you could strike but you'll be unemployed. I guess we'll just have to cross our fingers that Sam Altman and friends will pity us enough to give us some pocket money to survive. That's assuming the AGI created is aligned with our values. I mean, we can keep hoping that AGI will be a good thing with zero evidence or we can take action to slow progress now so…

> I guess we'll just have to cross our fingers that Sam Altman and friends will pity us enough to give us some pocket money to survive. That's assuming the AGI created is aligned with our values.

My guess is that Altman and co. already have some kind of exit strategy (like fleeing to New Zealand after they've captured a huge chunk of the developed world's wealth).

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#967

Post by throwaway2037 »

stefanfisk wrote: post #794
cambaceres wrote: post #786

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m including VAT in the calculation, and simplifies a bit by viewing the rest as salary.

IMHO that is very misleading in this context where there are a lot of Americans. If the VAT rates went to 0% you would still get to keep the exact same amount as with the current 25% rate. And when discussing B2B prices VAT is never included, as it is generally not an expense for the company but rather just an accounting detail.

Agree. So, their effective tax rate is 45%. Not so bad for a well-run country like Sweden. "Pay a lot (in taxes), get a lot (in services)."

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#968

Post by weatherlite »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #160
safety1st wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As any student who takes Econ 101, or reads history, (or has heard of a country called Argentina? or has opened a newspaper during the past year of post-Covid inflation?) will learn, this assumption is factually incorrect. If you give everyone ten million dollars, there will be a phenomenal and rapid increase in the price of goods, especially consumer staples (since everyone got that money, and everyone buys staples)…

Sure if you give everybody 10 million dollars in pieces of paper, what you described happening will happen. Money is the measure of the productive capacity of an economy. If you increase the money without increasing the capacity then you get inflation. But let's be charitable and assume that "Gud" was talking about increasing the capacity commensurately. Because that's what's happening. AI, robots and almost zero mar…

> AI, robots and almost zero marginal cost green energy are going to increase the productive capacity of economies dramatically over the next decade or two.

Oh boy, maybe much much later on, 15-30 years from now if we're lucky, and maybe just the opposite. But as for coming decade? Forget it. https://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_Global_Risks_Report_2023.p...

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#969

Post by weatherlite »

Gud wrote: post #152
wokwokwok wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By whom? ...and what will happen when every single person goes and tries to buy a 50" TV? Hm? Did we suddenly invent a magical TV making machine? Come on... this is Real Life, not Magical Fairy Land. We're not talking about a magical cornucopia that generates an endless amount of physical goods that can be used to accommodate the needs of every person. We're very specifically talking here about technological shift th…

Why do we need jobs? I’m genuinely curious. If the machines can produce the food, goods and luxury items traditionally made by mankind and their domesticated animals, I genuinely don’t see the problem. Naturally this is purely hypothetical, parent argued that work gives meaning to life(which I generally agree with). I argued you can still be working, even if less efficiently than the machines. Maybe it will be a grad…

> Why do we need jobs? I’m genuinely curious. If the machines can produce the food, goods and luxury items traditionally made by mankind and their domesticated animals, I genuinely don’t see the problem.

In principal you're right, we can in theory live like you suggest and expand on leisure culture / volunteering / 'made up' jobs by the government.

In practice, we're super far from the utopia. Energy is expensive, food is expensive, housing is expensive in ChatGPT can't do squat about it. What it CAN do is possibly replace me as a worker. So that's the conundrum.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#970

Post by weatherlite »

Terretta wrote: post #122
wokwokwok wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By whom? ...and what will happen when every single person goes and tries to buy a 50" TV? Hm? Did we suddenly invent a magical TV making machine? Come on... this is Real Life, not Magical Fairy Land. We're not talking about a magical cornucopia that generates an endless amount of physical goods that can be used to accommodate the needs of every person. We're very specifically talking here about technological shift th…

> Did we suddenly invent a magical TV making machine? I mean ... we already have 3D printing, and car making robots, and electronics making robots. Most of the TV is robots. All that's needed is the equivalent of 3D printing that adds an extra step of "TV-making-robot"-making robots. One reason we don't have that is that it turns out the robot making robot costs more than certain as-yet non-globalized labor markets.…

Would be nice to also have infinite minerals to prepare all those goods, or will the TVs be made of wind and solar?
Post reply on HN