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More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

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Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#961

Post by randomdata »

endisneigh wrote: post #958
randomdata wrote: post #950

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Average College grads make more money over their lifetime, period. And yet incomes have held stagnant through the entire rise of college attainment. That contradicts the notion that there is more money to be made. Within a given population, those who are born more capable will earn more than those who are less capable. Those who are born more capable are able to go further in school and be more productive in the wo…

> However, over time, those in similar standing seem to end up making the same amount of money no matter what. Cool claim, have any supporting evidence? Personally, I don’t believe that. The opportunities that you have as a result of the skills that you have can create great divergence in lifetime earnings. You’re making a pretty extraordinary claim.

Supporting evidence that incomes are stagnant? The aggregate data that is compiled from tax return information will naturally be your most accurate source, although I'm sure you can find thousands of articles that distill that further into a more digestible form as it seems to get reported on regularly.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#962

Post by Cthulhu_ »

cascom wrote: post #946
elihu wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Skilled trades pay better than most bachelor's degree track jobs. The impression I get from hanging out a bit in the welding subreddit is that a lot of people get into welding thinking it'll be a lucrative profession (because that's what people on the internet say about plumbers and welders and electricians and so forth), and what they eventually discover is that while it's possible to make a lot of money as a weld…

You don’t need to be an owner management in welding (though that is definitely the better path), but you have to be great welder and you have to be willing to work long and hard (most people I know wouldn’t make it through a shift working on a refinery turnaround in PPE on the gulf coast in September).

> (most people I know wouldn’t make it through a shift working on a refinery turnaround in PPE on the gulf coast in September).

I think this can be applied to a lot of successful professions; they require commitment and, in the case of software engineering, a level of talent. You can't just go to a college or bootcamp and earn tons of money if you don't have the knack, if it doesn't click with you.

The issue here is survivorship bias; the people that earn a lot of money end up talking about, or getting reported on how they make their money, but the 95% earners below that don't get the mention because their jobs and earnings are average and unremarkable.

I mean part of me wants to reach out to a FAANG or hip startup and look for opportunities to see how much I could in theory earn there. But I don't think it would be a match because I don't have the sigma male leetcode grindset.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#963

Post by endisneigh »

randomdata wrote: post #961
endisneigh wrote: post #958

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, over time, those in similar standing seem to end up making the same amount of money no matter what. Cool claim, have any supporting evidence? Personally, I don’t believe that. The opportunities that you have as a result of the skills that you have can create great divergence in lifetime earnings. You’re making a pretty extraordinary claim.

Supporting evidence that incomes are stagnant? The aggregate data that is compiled from tax return information will naturally be your most accurate source, although I'm sure you can find thousands of articles that distill that further into a more digestible form as it seems to get reported on regularly.

I quoted the part I’d like a source on.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#964

Post by randomdata »

endisneigh wrote: post #963
randomdata wrote: post #961

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supporting evidence that incomes are stagnant? The aggregate data that is compiled from tax return information will naturally be your most accurate source, although I'm sure you can find thousands of articles that distill that further into a more digestible form as it seems to get reported on regularly.

I quoted the part I’d like a source on.

Which you will find by looking at the income data, or any news article that covers income stagnation if you want the distilled version for easier reading.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#965

Post by inglor_cz »

endisneigh wrote: post #959
inglor_cz wrote: post #952

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Average College grads make more money over their lifetime, period." Your "period" makes me think about more questions, not less. 1) Will that still hold in 2070? Kids who are now 18 are likely to be working at least until then. How do the developments over time look like? Won't the increasing shortage of tradespeople drive up their compensation? 2) How does a finer division by majors look like? I would be surprised…

You’re buying into the propaganda: 1. Can’t predict the future. 2. How does the finer division by non college jobs look like? Electrician is one of the top- how does it compare to a doctor accounting the medical debt? 3. Average college debt is 30k. Hardly crippling.

Which propaganda?

1) You cannot predict the future, but expecting that current situation will hold indefinitely isn't a safer bet either. I think the best you can do is observe the trends.

2) Of course, I would recommend anyone to take the more compensated route, trade or college but it is probably easier for someone of average academic aptitude to become a good electrician than a good surgeon or a good programmer. That is the point.

3) What are the interests? I heard quite a lot of horror stories regarding the interest rates on college debt. Interest rate for non-trivial principals is the most important parameter of any debt.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#966

Post by indymike »

WalterBright wrote: post #760
tinalumfoil wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She made $45k year one, and a year later is the director of marketing at her company making over $100k/yr If OP's daughter got a CS degree after two years she'd have made $0 and be $30k in the hole for state school tuition ($100k+ for private school). By my calculation she's $100k minus boot camp cost out of the hole. According to Google the median income for a bachelor's degree is $100k, which includes experienced…

The point is, don't pick a major, spend 4 years and $$$$$, and then complain that one didn't know what the starting salaries would be.

This is easily the best advice in this thread.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#967

Post by endisneigh »

asabjorn wrote: post #858
nfw2 wrote: post #763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The study you linked is over 10 years old. Furthermore, it is using lifetime earnings as the core metric, which means they are pulling in data about people who earned their degrees like 50 years ago. All the data that currently exists shows better outcomes for students that go to college. One would expect this even if college had no benefit to students because the population of students that go to college is pre-sele…

That is why it may be better to evaluate the statement "college improve your lot using median outcomes" using outcomes for college graduates that do not come from wealth and that are not skilled enough to get into top-tier universities on merit (use median to avoid outlier sub-groups skewing the average). Basically, if you do not already have a force multiplier is the reward of college worth the huge loan that can't…

There are studies that already do this and show that regardless of your socioeconomic background you college improves lifetime earnings. Check out my post history for the link.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#968

Post by reaperducer »

sAbakumoff wrote: post #446
notreallyserio wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, when combined with the bad spelling and grammar.

Dude I am not a native English speaker and I don't give a flying fck about spelling and grammar and people complaining about it.

You must care, or you would have typed the full expletive.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#969

Post by tekknik »

welshwelsh wrote: post #655
silisili wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re 1, at least in the US, it's very dependent on market and path. I have two family members who have been pipefitters for 20 years. Both make more than I do as a software engineer. Another is a doctor, and makes more than they do. But another does boat repair, and makes more than the doctor. If the last decade is any indication, skilled labor - especially those not afraid to own their own business, are set to make a…

I'm sure there are some pipefitters who make a lot of money, but we should go by averages, not outliers. The average for "Plumbers, Pipefitters, and Steamfitters" is $56,330 per year, according to the BLS. For "Software Developers, Quality Assurance Analysts, and Testers" it's $110,140 per year. For "Physicians and Surgeons," it's $208,000 per year. We also need to consider that running your own business is a lot of…

> We also need to consider that running your own business is a lot of work, and doing physical labor can be hard on the body. One of the benefits of office jobs is that you get high pay, stable hours, relatively low stress and get to work in an air-conditioned room. So I would still prefer that over skilled trades even if the pay was the same.

On the flip side you stay in better shape, and therefore are healthier. When you work a physically demanding shop you exercise all day every day. With your typical office job, we’ll I have health issues from sitting too long.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#970

Post by anotherman554 »

brandall10 wrote: post #869
zzbzq wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of misleading information out there. On this site I once saw a carpenter say he was making more than he used to make as a $300k software developer. But I had some carpenters working for me and somehow I figured out they made around a tenth of that. In reality some of the outliers making a ton of money are wearing many hats as sales/marketing people, employing and managing subcontractors and employees, p…

My dad has run a skylight installation business since 1979, and at least over the past 30 years, has kept a payroll of about 10 employees. His business grosses about $2M per year, apparently after payroll and supplies he nets $500k. He was claiming something like $300k back when my mom stopped working in the late 90s. For some odd reason, my folks have next to nothing to show for it, at least not to retire comfortabl…

Maybe your dad can sell the business one day and retire on that?
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