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FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#961

Post by cies »

learc83 wrote: post #408
cies wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Side-effects may develop only after a while: a good reason for longer trials.

There has never been a vaccine that was recalled because of side effects that didn't show up until over a year later.

There was never a major mRNA vaccine roll out ever. mRNA possibly does not compare to traditional vaccines, there's evidence it is a different beast entirely.

Enough reason to be cautious, wait out the hidden/late-onset side effect, and not give it to those not too vulnerable to covid.

But authorities claim it's totally safe for all ages, while they have no data to back this up (that'd need a long trial, and those taking it ARE the long trial).

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#962

Post by thefunnyman »

l8rlump wrote: post #958
thefunnyman wrote: post #796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccinations are most effective if we reach herd immunity, which requires others to get vaccinated. The safety is not “perceived”, it’s scientifically verified by tracking hospitalization and death rates as it’s been rolled out at a global scale. The reason herd immunity is so important is that those that are immunocompromised _cannot_ safely get a vaccination and thus rely on there being enough vaccinated individual…

It seems you're suggesting that the virus only mutates in unvaccinated people? Do you have any further reading on this?

It’s not that the vaccinated can’t still spread COVID, but they do so at a much lower rate which gives the virus less chance to mutate. Anything that reduces transmission helps curb the development of new variants and vaccinations are one important piece of achieving that. Here’s a resource by the WHO which describes this.

https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/the-eff...

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#963

Post by nanis »

thex10 wrote: post #523
zacharytelschow wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Clinical studies from Israel, the Cleveland Clinic, England and elsewhere have demonstrated beyond a doubt that natural immunity to SARS-CoV-2 provides robust and durable protection against reinfection comparable to or better than that provided by the most effective vaccines." source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccine-mandate-natural-immunit... (Referenced studies are linked in the article). Why should people who…

Why does reduction in death/hospitalization/severe illness keep being interpreted as "no gain" by the skeptics?

Also, we do not yet have a good idea about the real world levels of reduction in "death/hospitalization/severe illness". Currently, in the United States, known deaths from Covid19 among people stands at "eight point seven per million fully vaccinated" (aka, 8.7/million) and has been steadily increasing since April[1,2].

Hospitalizations from Covid19 among the fully vaccinated stands at "thirty six per million fully vaccinated" and steadily increasing.

Since both outcomes come at the end of a process (get vaccinated -> get exposed to the virus -> get an infection -> require a hospital visit -> die from illness), there is naturally at least five or weeks lags between someone completing the full vaccination schedule and the hospitalization/death outcome occurring.

Given that about half the full vaccinations in the U.S. happened since April and given that the consensus seems to be that vaccine conferred protection lasts about 6-8 months, I would not expect the "deaths from Covid19 per million fully vaccinated against Covid19" to stabilize until October.

In the mean time, the unvaccinated will either have to submit or driven into the shadows with the current policies. Pretty soon, it will be a miracle to find anyone whose natural immune response without vaccination can be measured/tested at all.

[1]: Current version: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/bre...

[2]: Snapshots since April: https://archive.ph/https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hea...

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#964

Post by acdha »

thesis wrote: post #333
acdha wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that it’s not that simple because your choices significantly impact other people: I can’t choose whether or not to receive the viruses you spread, so I have an interest in you spreading far fewer of them. My 4 year old child can’t be vaccinated so he, along with many immune-compromised people or those with certain medical conditions, is dependent on other people getting vaccinated to sharply reduce spr…

Should the flu be mandatory as well? Flu & Covid have similar risks in children: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htm https://www.npr.org/2021/05/21/999241558/in-kids-the-risk-of...

I think so, but note that the NPR piece you linked to is based on obsolete pre-Delta data in the United States and by all accounts hospitals are seeing more sick kids than they did last year (some combination of known greater virulence and what the CDC classes as probable greater severity).

The best argument for treating COVID more seriously is that we have a better understanding of influenza’s long-term effects. In both cases, however, I’d argue that it makes sense to require vaccination simply to reduce the impact on childcare and education: even if dying from the flu is relatively low-risk, it’s stressful and disruptive when it rips through a class and vaccination is quite cheap in comparison.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#965

Post by renaudg »

wait_a_minute wrote: post #892
renaudg wrote: post #882

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mistake you're making is "omission bias" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omission_bias ) You're refusing the "beta" (installed by billions of users) version of something that can save your life because you (mistakenly) believe the choice is between that, and staying as you were before. It's not. That's no longer true with the Delta variant. Now it's really a choice between "carefully designed, just officially dec…

> There is just no theoretical basis for why anything wrong would happen here. Do you have a source for this? I’d like to read more about it. Also, what about people who have antibodies from prior infection with covid?

This is the expert consensus based on everything they know about how immunity and mRNA works.

It's kind of hard to give you one single source, simply because it's hard to demonstrate the absence of something. What usually happens instead is that somebody with specific concerns raises them and explains the plausible mechanism they see as problematic, then it's either debunked immediately as BS or if the theory has legs, it's supported by other scientists and put the test.

None of that has happened with mRNA vaccines. This is a great read about the Pfizer one : https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source...

I mean, you can't technically rule out somebody coming up with a revolutionary theory that changes our understanding of immunity like Einstein did for physics, but there is no sign of that, no theoretical basis for trouble, and the vaccine is saving lives in the meantime

>Also, what about people who have antibodies from prior infection with covid?

Research is moving fast on this, but AFAIK the consensus is that prior symptomatic infection gives longer lasting but also less broad (against different variants) immunity compared to an mRNA vaccine.

The best protection seems to be in people with prior infection + 1 shot of mRNA vaccine (of course, that does not imply one should try to get infected then vaccinated, because the risk of damage from that first infection vastly outweighs the benefit of a slightly better immunity if you pulled through unscathed, then got vaccinated)

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#966

Post by rglover »

l8rlump wrote: post #960
rglover wrote: post #885

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These people are psychotic. Literally, not hyperbolically. Society is going through a mass psychosis event and people need to seriously prepare to see (or be a victim of) the next major genocide in world history. Recommended: https://www.amazon.com/Affirming-Psychosis-Appeal-Adolf-Hitl...

Is this what you're talking about? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09maaUaRT4M

Ultimately, yes.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#967

Post by daddylongstroke »

supportlocal4h wrote: post #325
ceejayoz wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why don't we lockdown our highways when there are 600,000 deaths from auto accidents? We mandate seat belts, air bags, guard rails, road construction standards, backup cameras, crumple zones, and quite a few other elements involved in road safety. Per-mile road deaths have been on a precipitous decline for decades due to ongoing increases in safety mandates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate…

So 35000 deaths per year is ok? 100000? 250000? 1.5 million (diabetes)? 500000 hospitalizations (influenza)? What deserves such incredible non-stop daily attention? Answer: whatever makes the most money.

You nailed it on the head. The fear mongering is absurd, and largely money driven. I would think we suffer many many more deaths from diabetes than 1.5 million/year. Of course, if you die in the hospital from diabetes complications with Covid, you get counted as a "covid death". :-/

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#968

Post by daddylongstroke »

bcatanzaro wrote: post #109
Maxburn wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they are, all sorts of "freedoms" hinge on it now.

You can’t drive a car without a license for the same reason: unlicensed drivers kill people at higher rates. Just like unvaccinated people kill others at higher rates.

>Just like unvaccinated people kill others at higher rates.

Source? Are you saying unvaccinated people are out there murdering others? Do people no longer have functional immune systems?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#969

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

l8rlump wrote: post #960
rglover wrote: post #885

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These people are psychotic. Literally, not hyperbolically. Society is going through a mass psychosis event and people need to seriously prepare to see (or be a victim of) the next major genocide in world history. Recommended: https://www.amazon.com/Affirming-Psychosis-Appeal-Adolf-Hitl...

Is this what you're talking about? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09maaUaRT4M

It's interesting that this went so viral. I've had two friends independently send it to me and now I see it here. Seems fishy and a lot of the comments under it don't seem genuine. Lots of "I'm sending this to everyone I know" or "the people who need to hear this won't". Bizarre.

Seems to be sponsored by academyofideas.com. Good luck finding who actually runs that site.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#970

Post by daddylongstroke »

mikro2nd wrote: post #110
giantg2 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...instead find a new reason not to get it." Or continue an existing reason: "Information is not yet available about potential long-term health outcomes."

My brother had that (quite legitimate, really) concern. So he delayed vaccination. Now he has Covid. Doctors talking of amputating his toes because of blood clots. Death is not the worst thing to be feared in this.

Anecdotally, I know someone who got the vaccine, and dropped to the ground of a heart attack 3 days later - no prior history of any heart issues or hypertension. Thankfully, he was near an EMT unit that had to bring him back.
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