Just thinking out loud here, as I was considering something like this. I can also not give up the WhatsApp account due to the social pressure. What if I would use a second phone, a cheap one, used only for the whatsapp (and some other essential but privacy invasive apps). I would not have that second phone always with me, but it would provide me access to the social network I need without feeling tracked or providing…
I have a second dirt-cheap used phone with a disposable SIM card just for WA. But you could make a WA Matrix Signal bridge ( https://matrix.org/bridges/ ) using a temporary phone no.
Or even a VM if you don't want to have a physical phone.
> If their friendship relies on you installing an app on your phone, that's a very shallow friendship isn't it? This argument doesn't make sense. You can't just ignore practical aspects entirely and justify it with a cheeky "if they're truely your friends they'll accomodate ahah". Sure if I want to send a private message to a friend I don't care whether its via SMS or whatsapp, but if I'm in a group chat with 5 of my…
Why not inform your friend of the outcome? Half of the group chats seem to be utter nonsense until a final outcome is made, particularly with arranging something. Or would you not want your friend to attend? The choice is: do I want my friend to be included in my activities? The choice is not: do I want my friend to be included and also send all of his data to some people I've never met?
Your idea of friendship is rather strange. It appears to involve other people arranging your social life for you on your behalf, and then presenting the plans to you for your approval via the communication method of your choice.
> So you are going to move from one centralized, walled garden, privacy hostile platform that hard requires Google/Apple ecosystems to get signed updates... to another with identical drawbacks. Ideally we'd have a polished, decentralized app. Signal is a compromise. I don't think the drawbacks are identical: Facebook's business model depends on violatings the privacy of the users. The Signal Foundation has no such ne…
* There is no OS verified path to install Signal or updates without being in Google/Apple proprietary ecosystems and submitting some usage metrics to them. * You can't use signal on minority market share platforms even if they offer higher assurances of freedom, privacy, and security (RISC-V, OpenPOWER, etc.) * Getting a phone number requires KYC in over 200 countries and carriers will happily sell you out as extensi…
Just thinking out loud here, as I was considering something like this. I can also not give up the WhatsApp account due to the social pressure. What if I would use a second phone, a cheap one, used only for the whatsapp (and some other essential but privacy invasive apps). I would not have that second phone always with me, but it would provide me access to the social network I need without feeling tracked or providing…
You can limit what an app can gather anyway, if you wish. If you would go to such extremes to have a second device just for WhatsApp, there are ways to hide things from it on your one main device, too. I go for microg in order to cut Google's surveillance, and usually allow no permissions on untrusted apps, so all they can get is the IP. You can mitigate that too when needed, though probably with more effort than is…
When this article went up, I realized that I'd allowed WA to access my Contacts, so I went in and revoked that permission. It immediately reformatted my whole conversation list as phone numbers instead of names. I can't rename the conversation, but I can "add to contacts"... which inexplicably shows me my OS contact editor, which they're not allowed to read. So I guess that as punishment for not letting them constantly vacuum up my contact list and send it all to FB, they make it harder to figure out who I'm talking to. Classic FB.
> I'm not going to go preach it to the volunteers who coach my kids' rugby team. Why not? I would.
And tell them what? Please all go install a different app? That only works if you can get everybody on board, it's unacceptable if a parent gets left out because he isn't there that day or cannot get it to work. You would also have to explain to them that Facebook cannot read your messages, but they can see the meta data. And then you have to explain to them what meta data is. I think your kid is not going to appreci…
The point is that you can tell everybody why you don't like WA, and even come up with a really good way of explaining the problems to non-technical people. This might even work in some cases. The problem is that WA has an enormous head-start in Europe. So maybe you talk around your gym, but your kids' school can't justify switching. Guess what, you're still stuck picking between using WA and missing out on big chunks of your real life.
It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…
When I lived in Russia my doctor messaged me via WhatsApp. I'm American so I was a little culture shocked, I don't know if this is standard procedure or anything but it illustrates how ubiquitous WhatsApp is. I'm so anti-Facebook now that it's a part of the way I identify myself, and for all that I can't delete it. I maintain contact with a friend in Germany via Whatsapp or Facebook messenger, and in this case it wou…
I've lived in Germany for years and I do feel like, if we're going to stereotype people by nationality, they're one of the most privacy-sensitive groups you'll find. This is the country where, by law, if somebody picks up a (land-line) phone in the house, any other phone currently in use has to shut off. I'm not saying you can definitely convince that friend to get off WA / FB, but it's worth a shot.
(I don't know what to replace it with -- I mostly use Hangouts but it really feels like it's falling apart.)
It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…
Same case here in India, Sucks to have these apps despite knowing what they are doing just because your School or College groups are on these platforms. I tried educating my fellow mates about this but seems unlikely that it will have any effect.
I don't like Signal's stance on forks (which is that they are allowed but may not use the official Signal network) but it hardly has identical drawbacks. Signal is open source, can be downloaded as an official APK and can be run on LineageOS without Google Play (notifications do require some emulation of Play Services calls, but that can be provided using MicroG).
"hardly has drawbacks" My notes on Signal contain the following: + It usually just works + Reasonable desktop experience (needs to re-link once a month or so, but otherwise independent and not terrible UX), good mobile experience - Metadata handled by Amazon - Phone number is a hard requirement, and changing your phone number means re-connecting to everyone - Funding comes from Facebook from what I recall, and even w…
"Funding comes from Facebook from what I recall."
Not really. Original funding came from NGO sources such as the Open Tech Fund.