Kickstarter employees vote to unionize • Hacker News Board

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#961

Post by scarface74 » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 2:05 PM UTC

chimprich wrote: post #938

scarface74 wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should a person take a pay cut to help someone else who is less skilled or chose different priorities above their jobs? I expect a person who is willing to devote 60 hours a week to get paid more than me when I go home after 8 hours.

> I expect a person who is willing to devote 60 hours a week to get paid more than me when I go home after 8 hours. Apart from the fact you get diminishing returns on work quality for those sort of hours... That person is neglecting their family and/or partner, or at the very least their own health if they're working those sort of hours. Where do they find time to work on personal relationships or do exercise? It als…

Why? If I had a choice to make more money working one job and make the same amount of money doing two jobs. Of course I’m going to choose one job. I wouldn’t do that now, but people have a right to prioritize their work life balance as they choose.

How many startup founders have worked 60+ hours a week to get their business off the ground?

Law is famous for getting ahead by having more billable hours.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#962

Post by miscPerson » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 2:13 PM UTC

ieRei6ae wrote: post #927

miscPerson wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, plenty of misandrists and anti-White racists do show up to those meetings and join panels to push their discriminatory agenda. Why do you think we talk about the lack of women in STEM, but not the lack of men in HR, education, social work, psychology, etc? Because bigots set the agenda. Having sports programs for one sex has been ruled illegal under Title IX — but how many universities have special tuto…

> anti-White racists Please spare the alt-right dog whistle.

Could you explain how that’s a dog whistle?

I was referring to racist groups such as the Nation of Islam [0], who have put quite a bit of effort into building an anti-White power structure based on racist ideals.

Fun fact: one of their leaders — the one who had Malcolm X killed — meets with the Black Caucus, including Obama. (Of course, they covered that up during the election. [1])

And referring to people like Jussie Smollett, who committed multiple felonies to ferment hatred of White people.

And that major news organizations will blatantly lie to defame White children, when the reality is they were being harassed by another racist group, the Black Hebrew Israelites [2][3].

[0] https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/grou...

[1] https://www.ajc.com/news/local/could-this-long-lost-photo-ha...

[2] https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2019/12/12/suspects-jers...

[3] https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnn-covington-nick-sandmann-de...

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#963

Post by anoncake » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 2:27 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #709

ChuckMcM wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech workers could have effectively used the leverage associated with unionization since at least 1984 during the semiconductor recession. Considering that the revenue per employee number is at an all time high, and the amount of money the company spends on the employee's working environment[1] is at record lows pretty much explains why this is going to be effective now when it wasn't before. There is also the issue…

Politics aside, I wonder if a tech union would have a strong incentive to make their individual workers irreplaceable--encourage them to hoard knowledge or make the code deliberately difficult for others to understand--such that the company would have a lot more to lose from a strike. As an outsider, most unions that I'm familiar with have employees that are more or less replaceable (one certified welder can fill in…

If the potential workers in favor of such a scheme wanted to do that, they could just as well do it now individually.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#964

Post by SkyBelow » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 2:27 PM UTC

zip1234 wrote: post #190

mason55 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unions, in my experience, exist to help keep mediocre, unmotivated employees employed. One has no incentive to excel, as promotions are based on years "served", much like prison. There is nothing inherent in unions that make them operate like that.

I had a uncle that was a bricklayer and moved somewhere that bricklayers were in demand so that he could get paid more. He was not a union member. When the union found out he was doing the same work for slightly less, they sent some people over to threaten his life if he didn't join union or leave. He left.

I guess I should have mentioned the entire process in my previous comment instead of pointing out the conclusion.

Businesses use lobbyist to get laws to entrench themselves in their own monopolies. If I attempt to disrupt this business by avoiding their regulatory capture, police are sent to punish me. Depending upon which laws I violate, I can be sent to jail and end up with years in prison. Prison, where you are kept in stylized cages and your ever waking moment is controlled by others. That is a treatment that I do not see any significant difference from treatment that would be labeled as slavery.

I know people this has happened to, and I don't see why people treat it as being somehow justified just because the business went through the process of lobbying (and political donations which only seem different than bribery in name only).

And this is ignoring the history of business outright murdering people for protesting for workers' rights.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#965

Post by cat199 » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 2:45 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #912

Negitivefrags wrote: post #911

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You act like there is some shadowy cabal running cost benefit analysis of every decision for some evil purpose. Maybe the free snacks are there because it’s nice to have free snacks and the boss enjoys them? Does there really need to be a more sinister reason? I mean, I know at our company that I wanted to have drink fridges with a huge amount of interesting beverages because I enjoy drinking a different drink every…

There is at least a little bit of a dark side to seemingly frivolous perks like snacks, foosball tables, and beer on tap- by spending relative pennies for "luxuries", management is able to paper over diminished investment elsewhere, that employees could otherwise benefit from. Or to hide work cultures that aren't as great as they look upon their first visit. Shiny distractions.

> Shiny distractions.

Or, as I put it in a similar situation, very expensive snacks and foosball games

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#966

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 3:05 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #779

miscPerson wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, plenty of misandrists and anti-White racists do show up to those meetings and join panels to push their discriminatory agenda. Why do you think we talk about the lack of women in STEM, but not the lack of men in HR, education, social work, psychology, etc? Because bigots set the agenda. Having sports programs for one sex has been ruled illegal under Title IX — but how many universities have special tuto…

There are plenty of men in HR, education, and social work. Men simply don't go into those fields as much as women do because they pay less than comparable positions in other fields. Case in point: the number of men in nursing has been increasing every year without having any gender-based outreach efforts, because nurses make good money, get longer weekends, and you don't need 10 years of degrees to become a nurse. Si…

[deleted]

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#967

Post by jbob2000 » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 3:27 PM UTC

chillacy wrote: post #898

jbob2000 wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because some stress is more justified than others. If somebody was stressed out as a travel blogger, would you favour their unionization over a stressed out retail worker? That's essentially what I'm getting at, the stress at kickstarter isn't worth their mission. But at other companies, the stress is worth it, so therefore the unionization is worth it.

It's not like unionization is a zero sum game, why would a travel blogger's choices affect the retail worker's?

Unionization takes public support, it's not something done in isolation (hence why there's all sorts of articles about Kickstarter's attempt and unionizing - they need support). Public support is a zero-sum game, therefore unionization is a zero-sum game.

If I give my limited attention to this unionization effort, then I may not give it to someone else. And maybe there is a workforce who doesn't have the eye of the internet who are trying to unionize, but now kickstarter has taken all the space for that news category.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#968

Post by wirrbel » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 4:21 PM UTC

calderarrow wrote: post #235

Coming from a public accounting background, I’ve seen a variety of businesses. Somewhat obviously, I’ve seen some be successful with unions and others be successful without, which makes sense, as unions are neither inherently good nor bad. They are a tool which can change the power dynamic and incentive structure of workers and employers throughout an organization, but there is nothing inherent about having a union t…

You may think you can do without a union if business is good and management OK. When shit hits the fan, that is when you'll learn that you need them.

I work in a German unionized company and I think unions can be quite well-aligned with workers and business interest.

IIRC certain aspects of US law make unions be the way they are in the US on purpose to lower their acceptance among employees. For example work councils which are commonly established in unionized companies aren't allowed in the US iirc, they can be a nice alternative from going all in into unionizing, a democratic representation of all employees.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#969

Post by wirrbel » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 4:22 PM UTC

elicash wrote: post #379

1. Why do tech workers need a union? If you want to improve your workplace, you have additional leverage to fight for changes if you're in a union. There's often very little you can do alone. This might be things like pay, or it might be something else entirely. 2. But aren't tech workers elite coddled rich kids who are lucky to make what they receive? I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from j…

You may think you can do without a union if business is good and management OK. When shit hits the fan, that is when you'll learn that you need them.

I work in a German unionized company and I think unions can be quite well-aligned with workers and business interest.

IIRC certain aspects of US law make unions be the way they are in the US on purpose to lower their acceptance among employees. For example work councils which are commonly established in unionized companies aren't allowed in the US iirc, they can be a nice alternative from going all in into unionizing, a democratic representation of all employees.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#970

Post by carapace » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 4:33 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #891

carapace wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's an interesting (IMO) one: https://www.windings.com/about-us/ > For more than 50 years, Windings has provided engineered electromagnetic solutions for critical applications in Aerospace, Defense, Automotive, Medical, Oil & Gas and general Factory Automation. As a full-service provider, Windings is a leader in the design, test, manufacture and support of custom electric motors, generators and related components…

Thanks! Do you have a connection to it? I'd be very curious to hear an inside take.

I don't. I was looking for someone to design a motor and just happened to notice.