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Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

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Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#961

Post by vbezhenar »

romanovcode wrote: post #892
vbezhenar wrote: post #841

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows is good, but getting hardware working is a lottery. I recently built a PC with pretty standard components (Asus MB, i5 CPU, Asus GTX 1060 GPU), installed Windows 10, it worked fine until I enabled Hyper-V. With Hyper-V enabled it BSODs few times a day because of buggy NVidia driver.. I had to disable it because of that. While macOS is pretty buggy and I experienced crashes, they are not that often, may be few…

I must be very lucky. Didn't saw BSOD in 5+ years now while using Windows nearly every day

May be I'm unlucky, I don't know. Hardware seems to work fine, because with disabled Hyper-V long stress test performs just fine. I'm trying to prepare a bug report, but NVidia doesn't seem to even have a proper Bugzilla, so I'm not sure if it'll go anywhere. I hate to interact with corporations.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#962

Post by rdnetto »

KajMagnus wrote: post #557
davidy123 wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't easily share media between the Apple ecosystem and others. You can't access some Apple services at all from Linux. There's no way to run userscripts/WebExtensions on IOS. Your device is no longer a user-focused tool to access media, your browser is closer to being a "smart tv" than a customize-able information explorer and augmenter essentially controlled by no one. You're giving up an awful lot for the sak…

> what's missing from a modern Linux desktop Networking, printer stuff, graphics stuff that works immediately after installation, without one having to search for various problems & fixes on the Internet. And that doesn't randomly break after kernel upgrades. Because of running into networking & graphics driver problems every now and then (and having to revert to older kernel versions), and problems with printers & d…

You know that OSX and Linux both use the same printer stack (CUPS) right?

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#963

Post by Symbiote »

mercer wrote: post #943
wongma wrote: post #833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drag and drop an item from Finder to the terminal and it expands to its full path. Not sure if Linux does something similar as I'm not a regular user.

I also quite like the 'open' command to do the opposite.

The Linux equivalent of this one is "see", an alias to the run-mailcap program, which on Ubuntu is in the "mime-support" package, which is probably installed by default.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#964

Post by merb »

threeseed wrote: post #679
merb wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the biggest problem with macs is not the software/openness. the biggest problem is the price. the older models might have had a justifiable price, however the new 15" models with a touch-whatever, costs way more and have less value. they actually even replaced the SD slot, which probably a lot of professional artists needed (or at least used). I used it to extend my harddrive with a 256gb extension card If I would ne…

1. You can buy MacBook Pros without the touch bar. 2. Professional photographers for a long time primarily used CompactFlash which has never had built in hardware support. So I can't imagine they are suddenly missing something they never had. It's the prosumers who were the heavy uses of SD cards and who were inconvenienced with the decision. Although most cameras come with WiFi these days so you can see Apple's thin…

> 1. You can buy MacBook Pros without the touch bar.

The old Model (15") (no new processor + no usb-c)

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#965

Post by AsyncAwait »

ratsimihah wrote: post #520
sreque wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a software developer, and I detest working on my mac laptop. At $lastjob I had a Linux desktop and it is, I believe, the most productive environment I have ever developed in. The job before, I had a windows desktop, and I prefer that to mac. You say you want to just "get things done expediently," but in my experience apple software is flat out inferior and OSX is the worst of the 3 major operating systems I have…

What does Linux give you that macOS doesn’t? I use both a Mac and an Arch Linux running i3/awesomewm, and to me macOS is like any Linux distro with a user-friendly desktop environment. I guess it doesn’t have an « official » package manager, but homebrew has most packages anyway?

> What does Linux give you that macOS doesn’t?

For one, you largely don't pay strategy tax, which is under discussion in the very title of this submission.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#966

Post by philwelch »

BuildTheRobots wrote: post #869
philwelch wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mac OS 9 never ran on Intel. That was a separate migration path, where Mac OS X would run a Mac OS 9 VM, but this "Classic" experience never made it past PPC.

My apologies, I'm remembering wrong. On PPC you could either dual-boot or run OS9 (and 8?) apps seamlessly on an OSX desktop, which was pretty impressive. The seamless emulation of OSX-PPC apps on an Intel processor was extremely impressive though. I remember the majority of stuff working surprisingly well with little slowdown (though this might now be rose-tinted).

Mac OS 9 could run apps written for anything from System 7 onwards, and sometimes even System 6 apps though that was hit or miss. It could even run 68k binaries.

Mac OS 9 inside of “Classic” (the VM that ran OS 9 inside of OS X) wasn’t especially seamless, but what was seamless was “Carbon”, a transitional API that allowed developers to build apps that ran natively on both Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X. It didn’t take nearly as long to port code from OS 9 to Carbon as it would have taken to port to Cocoa, so many early OS X apps were Carbon ports.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#967

Post by AsyncAwait »

astrodust wrote: post #916
Insanity wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With academic, I'm not sure if you also include 'philosophic'. Personally, I'd rather develop on mac than on windows but I'm the happiest on Linux. A large factor in this is that I like to contribute to FOSS and find that 'ideology' to be a match with my beliefs regarding software.

For work I prefer the macOS environment partially for the software, but mostly because the machines are standardized and interchangeable. If one machine dies I can swap it for another without any fuss. Restore from Time Machine and get on with life, something that takes about an hour or so. This is really not the case with Windows or Linux. These require a lot of tinkering and tuning. A recent swap from one Windows 7…

> Upgrading them is just too much of a fuss.

Switching to a rolling distro will eliminate the upgrade pain. Keeping dd backups is also relatively easy.

And unless you're on a custom kernel, you can just roll over to a new machine with your image and the appropriate kernel modules would get loaded for the new hardware at boot.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#968

Post by AsyncAwait »

derefr wrote: post #466
electricslpnsld wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but the LLVM toolchain provided by Apple is a bit clunky and missing features relative to what you get from a typical Linux distro.

Something I don’t quite understand, coming from a scripting-language bqckground: why are you using your OS’s provided compiler toolchain (for anything other than building OS packages for distribution?) Is there no version manager for clang the way there is for e.g. Rust?

> Is there no version manager for clang the way there is for e.g. Rust?

Not an official one for sure, Cargo is a blessing for people used to dealing with C/C++ dependency management.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#969

Post by squiggleblaz »

reaperducer wrote: post #498
sreque wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a software developer, and I detest working on my mac laptop. At $lastjob I had a Linux desktop and it is, I believe, the most productive environment I have ever developed in. The job before, I had a windows desktop, and I prefer that to mac. You say you want to just "get things done expediently," but in my experience apple software is flat out inferior and OSX is the worst of the 3 major operating systems I have…

You're lucky that you get to have just one dev environment. I have 2 Windows, 1 Mac, 2 iOS and 1 Android device on my work desk and I have to constantly switch between them. That said, I do most of my heavy lifting on the Mac, and all primary dev on a Mac. Doing the equivalent tasks is a chore in Windows. I used to be all-Windows, but once I understood that MacOS is file-oriented and not program-oriented, it helped a…

Really? I've always found Mac OS unpleasant, because it seems to me very program oriented. I typically work in a task oriented way (a collection of windows, probably from different apps, on one virtual desktop, referring to related files; another virtual desktop has windows from the same apps for another task).

This has always seemed to me to be a species of "file oriented" working, and I prefer apps that run in a file oriented way. For instance, a graphical file manager that shows a folder in a window, and you click to get open an item in the folder you so always get a new window - even if it happens that the item in folder is just another folder that is opened by the graphical file manager. Or office apps which always open each document in a new window, and when I close the current document, the only thing I notice is that the current document is closed - it doesn't try to focus some other window from the same app.

But Mac OS has always seemed an almost perfectly application-based interface with its fully application-based dock and it's application-based global menu (close a window for a file that was loaded by Cool App, and Cool App's menu still shows). I think it's Finder is a bit confused: it used to be mostly file based, at some point in the OS X years it got more and more application based but perhaps it's swung back - it's been a few years since I've bothered trying Mac OS. It had some of the most appalling virtual desktop support when I last used it, that made me think "the people who have implemented this only work in an application-based way". I can only imagine that's got better. But it seems that Mac OS is always: application-based workflow is prioritised, file-based workflow is secondary.

I have found that Linux can[1] excel in this workflow, Windows is ambivalent to all workflows, supporting all of them badly because it supports none at all, and Mac OS prefers you to think "what tool am I using", not "what task am I doing".

Is my experience entirely unique?

[1] i.e. it depends on what particular tooling you're using - it's possible a default setup is appalling.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#970

Post by garmaine »

pjmlp wrote: post #795
garmaine wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the workflow in which windows was better than anything UNIX based....

Desktop software development, graphical debugging tools. The only UNIX based that tops it is macOS.

But Linux is better for that?
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