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Time to Take a Stand

blog.samaltman.com

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Re: Time to Take a Stand

#961

Post by disantlor »

thedevil wrote: post #412
disantlor wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why are we giving so much benefit of the doubt to trump and trumps supporters not only is this move ridiculous but it was executed with no foresight. now border agents are forced to make ad hoc decisions because it went into effect immediately. trump supporters cheering and claiming its just temporary, to give us time to "figure out whats going on" are deluding themselves. they rush through a ridiculous, anti-america…

Well, we definitely should not pander to them. I actually think most people (Trump supporters, you, me, everyone) vote mostly based on identity (liberal/conservative, religion, race, open-minded, well-mannered, etc). I think Trump supporters mostly voted for the party that they most identified with, the guy they thought was on their side. And I think you did the same. (I see myself as unaligned and open-minded, thus…

certainly bubbles exist on both sides but only one side is proudly anti-intellectual, anti-science, increasingly anti-reason, etc etc

people have dark and noble sides, sure, but the balance of them is not always the same

at protests in nyc last night people were chanting for love and no hate, all our welcome, this is your land.

maybe that's corny, but compare that to "lock her up" and "build the wall"

there is a right and there is a wrong.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#962

Post by dogma1138 »

Tulip68 wrote: post #892
up_so_floating wrote: post #748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is already socially unacceptable to promote ethnic cleansing of any sort. Sure, it's important to continually affirm this, but can you name anyone in the Trump administration who is promoting ethnic cleansing?

Just as every one of Hitler's cabinet-level ministers was deemed at the very least complicit in that regime's crimes against humanity, so it every single one of Trumpf's cronies guilty for being an enabler of these disgusting, hateful, racist and un-American violations of fundamental human rights. Every last one of them needs to be brought to justice and called to account for their inaction in the face of ethnic clea…

Seriously, a green card is a fundamental right now? I know plenty of people that were denied Visas to the US all of them are "white privileged" and most of them are "males", all of which either studied in the US or wanted to work there after completing a master's program or a PHD, all of which have successfully passed interviews and some of the most rigorous hiring processes in the industry.

By using this infantile rhetoric and making every statement at best a hyperbole and at worse a complete fabrication you are doing a great disservices for your cause.

You talk about ethnic cleansing like you know it, while ignoring the true horrors that go around the world, you gladly ignore what is happening in Africa, Asia, heck I would also take a big presumption and assume you were in the camp that was against a no fly zone and intervention in Syria.

From all your statements you seem to ignore the plight of millions in favor a the privileged few, because give me a break a honor student from Iran that can't get back into the country and now is facing with having to switch her PHD from MIT to another uni if it's not resolved isn't a 9 year old schoolgirl sold into slavery. Even the true "refugees" that come to the US are the privileged few that could afford spending as much as 50,000$ to get to the US and to have their asylum request processed. Is this right, no, is this unfair yes, is this sad yes, but this isn't tragic, this isn't a travesty, what is a travesty is the likes of you shaming artists on twitter that commit the greatest sin of scheduling gigs in Israel while ignoring the rape and murder of 100,000's of people around the world.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#963

Post by gdilla »

MichaelGG wrote: post #543
microtonal wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very important people - calling everyone who voted for Trump a racist homophobe Maybe they are not racist homophobes, but they voted a racist homophobe and his cabal into power. They knew that his was one of the expected outcomes. Voting is powerful and you are (co-)responsible for the outcome. If you don't want racist executive orders, don't vote for a racist. Simple as that.

>racist Explain how the EO is racist. Blocking a country is not racist. If the EO was "Persians are not allowed in" that'd be different. And homophobe? A gay man spoke at the RNC to huge applause (even made a comment on how getting upset over transgender bathroom use is pointless). These kind of careless accusations just make everyone ignore real charges of racism.

how soon we forget. Trump was the world's most famous birther. But no racism there, of course!? right?

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#964

Post by gdilla »

tomjen3 wrote: post #815
shitgoose wrote: post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

racist homophobes They used to call Trump also an anti-semite in the same sentence. Now he is down to just a racist and homophobe. Have I missed something?

The rabbi at his inauguration? His jewish daughter?

his anti-semite top advisor, Bannon?

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#965

Post by gdilla »

refurb wrote: post #272
fowlerpower wrote: post #84

This is absolutely nuts. Green card holders (legal permanent residents of the United States) are being turned back from the US as soon as they get to the airport. They are being forced to file waivers which can be denied. How can legal permanent residents be denied entry? I mean this has to be breaking So many laws, how can this be ok?

How can legal permanent residents be denied entry? I mean this has to be breaking So many laws, how can this be ok? You have it wrong. The only people that can't be denied entry to the US are US citizens. When I had a Green Card it was made very clear to me that a green card does not guarantee entry to the US. For example, if you leave the US (and have a green card) for more than 6 months the onus is on you to prove…

sure, but of all the people to blanketly keep out, the ones who where actually vetted, did their paperwork and followed the law seems counterproductive.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#966

Post by hsod »

scrollaway wrote: post #952
hsod wrote: post #933

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is eerily reminiscent of this quote from MLK's Letter From Birmingham Jail: "I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace…

And your comment is truly repulsive. I have been fighting this for a year, far better with plain discussion than anyone I've seen with sticks and this isn't even my country . Your implications are disgusting and the nicest way I can find to tell it to you is to stuff it. What I said in my comment (I'm guessing you were too busy looking for that quote instead of reading mine more carefully) is that focusing on holding…

What you said is that we should seek order over justice. This elevates the oppressor to the same moral ground as the oppressed, and demotes the freedom fight to a petty political squabble with a "right" answer somewhere in the middle.

Your comparison of me to Trump is ironically the pettiest thing in this thread.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#967

Post by carsongross »

anigbrowl wrote: post #914
carsongross wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Punching nazis is OK. The left gets to decide who is a nazi. Punching commies is OK. The right gets to decide who is a commie. Welcome to 2017.

Richard Spencer has openly declared his White Nationalist aspirations, and is on video exhorting his supporters to party like it's 1933 and exchanging nazi salutes with them, with arguments like 'for us, it is conquer or die.' You can see some highlights(>!) of a recent speech here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6-bi3jlxk I did not decide he was a nazi by making some theoretical extrapolation using Marxist calcul…

Do you consider, for example, Noel Ignatiev a legitimate target of political street violence?

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#968

Post by artursapek »

dang wrote: post #948
artursapek wrote: post #191

Trump has an anti-Muslim position because the recent bombings, shootings, stabbings, and semi-truck attacks in Europe have all been committed by Muslims. And it's not a coincidence - their ideology says that they are rewarded in the afterlife for killing "infidels" (us). Christians don't live by this kind of ideology.

This is religious flamewar. That's not allowed on HN, and if you do it again we will ban you. The partisan acid people are throwing at each other right now is bad enough, but your comment is markedly worse. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13508286 and marked it off-topic.

I think flamewar is a bit of a strong word for what I wrote, but point taken.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#969

Post by dang »

CalChris wrote: post #911
splat wrote: post #865

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your point here is a little disingenuous. (For reference I'm a longtime LP party member and have recently been getting very involved in the LP at the local level.) While it's true that the recent presidential nominees have all been former Republicans, the reason for this is that the Party has been wanting to put up respectable candidates who have experience. In its early years, the LP was effectively just an…

You think I'm being a little disingenuous? I think you're being a LOT disingenuous. It is VERY common for conservatives to espouse 'libertarian' principles as a criticism for liberals while then not applying those same principles to conservatives. And since you've been a libertarian for some time, I know you know what I mean. Bob Barr, any sort of a libertarian? Please. He was the original drug warrior. Gary Johnson…

> You think I'm being a little disingenuous? I think you're being a LOT disingenuous.

Please don't be uncivil in comments here, regardless of how wrong someone else's comment may be. This sort of personal abrasiveness is destructive and leads to worse.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#970

Post by scrollaway »

hsod wrote: post #966
scrollaway wrote: post #952

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And your comment is truly repulsive. I have been fighting this for a year, far better with plain discussion than anyone I've seen with sticks and this isn't even my country . Your implications are disgusting and the nicest way I can find to tell it to you is to stuff it. What I said in my comment (I'm guessing you were too busy looking for that quote instead of reading mine more carefully) is that focusing on holding…

What you said is that we should seek order over justice. This elevates the oppressor to the same moral ground as the oppressed, and demotes the freedom fight to a petty political squabble with a "right" answer somewhere in the middle. Your comparison of me to Trump is ironically the pettiest thing in this thread.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
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