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Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

politico.com

951–960 of 983 posts

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#951
post #734

You guys need to wake up and realize that Anthropic are the enemy. They just increased their political spending as well... Stop giving them your money or this never ends.

Can you elaborate on what makes you say this? I'm really struggling to understand the source of all the Anthropic hate on HN recently.

They're the only company that didn't sign https://x.com/beffjezos/status/2080858083472146656

Put the pieces together. They are the ones lobbying for this. They've been attempting regulatory capture for years. They're also known for ripping customers off.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#952

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you do that without banning the model itself. It doesn't matter who can or can't run it. They are trying to ban something that can be represented entirely by a sequence of bytes. An illegal number, like the DeCSS key. The fact that money is involved does not change the free speech aspects. This isn't CSAM or torture porn. It's data.

It's not the model weights people are panicking over losing access to though. It's the compute.

If you mean being forced to overpay for no-longer-SOTA closed models, that’s I guess the protectionist motive here: impossible to enforce, enforcement uneven and political, illegality rampant, I suppose all by design too. I’d say it’s brilliant if it weren’t so evil. I have hope saner minds will prevail.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#953
post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there actually is a congnizant argument other than to protect investments. And of course they cant say that. You are using way to much logic in this. You are witnessing powerful people who are operating way outside the scope of their own abilities thrash around. AI isn't being stopped. Definitely not by people who value money. The inertia at this point is probably even too much for those who have some s…

I agree that many of the rich and powerful are not at all as ingenious, creative or capable as they like to make themselves out to be, but I don't see a clear/easy way to escape the economic ramifications of the fact that they own and control virtually all physical resources and all political power. If, say, Chinese develop AGI, and that makes US tech companies obsolete - I see them banning Chinese AGI, even going to…

This. Living/Coming from a country like that, when shit gets real the elite will squeeze every inch regardless of how brutal it gets. It happened to the USSR and every other country. The US is not that different.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#954
post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that many of the rich and powerful are not at all as ingenious, creative or capable as they like to make themselves out to be, but I don't see a clear/easy way to escape the economic ramifications of the fact that they own and control virtually all physical resources and all political power. If, say, Chinese develop AGI, and that makes US tech companies obsolete - I see them banning Chinese AGI, even going to…

Would it not be more logical that US billionaires simply switch sides and move to China? I am not convinced that Americans are as patriotic as they claim and willing to go down with the ship. You are already seeing signs of this in Taiwan.

In some sense that's happening. A Reichsfluchtsteuer of some kind is happening where wealthy people from Western countries have to pay exit taxes. Americans can't exit without giving citizenship, though.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#955
post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that many of the rich and powerful are not at all as ingenious, creative or capable as they like to make themselves out to be, but I don't see a clear/easy way to escape the economic ramifications of the fact that they own and control virtually all physical resources and all political power. If, say, Chinese develop AGI, and that makes US tech companies obsolete - I see them banning Chinese AGI, even going to…

Would it not be more logical that US billionaires simply switch sides and move to China? I am not convinced that Americans are as patriotic as they claim and willing to go down with the ship. You are already seeing signs of this in Taiwan.

US billionaires who moved to China would simply get executed over their crimes (like tax evasion). Will not happen.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#956

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One candidate supports two genocides, the other supports seven.

It's a race to the bottom and I understand everyone who does not vote (for one of the 2 major parties) on the condition that they don't give up hope but start to learn and organize for real change.

Race to the bottom can be fixed if we consistently don't buy the lemon. Say there's a candidate who wants 2 genocides and one who wants 7. If we pick the 2, and do that consistently, eventually the other one realises they can win by only supporting 1 genocide, and then the one with 2 loses and realises they can win by supporting 0 genocides. Kicking and screaming, but we get there eventually.

This only works if we consistently vote for the less bad candidate. If we just vote for whoever isn't in power right now, both parties can get worse and still win.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#957
post #954

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it not be more logical that US billionaires simply switch sides and move to China? I am not convinced that Americans are as patriotic as they claim and willing to go down with the ship. You are already seeing signs of this in Taiwan.

In some sense that's happening. A Reichsfluchtsteuer of some kind is happening where wealthy people from Western countries have to pay exit taxes. Americans can't exit without giving citizenship, though.

>Wealthy Americans top ‘golden visa’ surge in New Zealand and applications from China double

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/feb/18/new-zealand-go...

>Turkish Citizenship by Investment Program

https://www.yavuzozdemir.av.tr/practice-areas.html?gad_sourc...

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#958
post #939

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because US manufacturers are 100% unable to compete. In the June just passed Tesla Model Y is the best selling EV in China.

And where is that model Y manufactured? Surely you're not suggesting that it's imported from the US.

If you consider Tesla in China to be Chinese, then BYD in EU would be Hungarian in the parent comment. Japanese brands also manufactures in Mexico, so Mazda is suddenly Mexican now? I've never seen anyone claiming such stuff, except when it comes to anything China.

Model Y remains American just like iPhone, regardless of where they are made. Nobody refers to iPhone as Chinese or Indian.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#959

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but only if you also conceed that all of these AI companies were stealing to train their models in the first place. Either everyone was stealing all along, and they should all be sued out of existence, or nobody is stealing. Personally, I think its all fair use and support all of the training, including distilations.

Distillation is forbidden by the provider of the model. I suppose you think that model providers are not allowed to impose restrictions on the use of their model? Think carefully before answering.

> I suppose you think that model providers are not allowed to impose restrictions on the use of their model

They should have exactly the same ability to "restrict" it is as the writer of a book on those who read the book that was purchased.

And seeing as those model providers were not restricted from training on those books.... It would follow that other people would have the exact same right to train on the output of the models.

I simply demand that model providers are treated exactly the same as the data that they trained on. Either it was OK for them to train on other people's work, en mass, without permission, over the objection of the creator, and therefore its OK to do the same to them.

or none of its ok, and they should presumably be equally sued into oblivion, and equally shut down completely by the government.

Thats all. Take your pick. Either all of the training on either books and all the models, without permission, is ok or none of it is.

Additionally, the output of a model isn't even copyrightable. So actually there would be even less protections for that. Because of this, it seems that anyone could use it for anything.

EX: 3rd parties aren't bound by the TOS of the models. So someone could simply do a passthrough, and give the uncopyrightable output to someone else to distill, and since the distiller didn't sign the TOS they would be in the clear to train on non copyrightable info.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#960
post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument is - these models costs hundreds of billions to develop - to BOTH US and China. China is giving them for free despite not making financial sense because they want to weaken US's tech firms ability to compete - because China sees AI dominance as critical for their national security. The US also sees AI dominance as critical for their national security, and relies on a market economy and non-state-owned la…

> The US also sees AI dominance as critical for their national security, and relies on a market economy and non-state-owned labs. [...] > but the fact the discussion here ignores the fact that these concerns and dynamics are real just lower the discussion level instead of actually discussing potential solutions. We had this problem solved for DECADES. Build the best post-secondary education system in the world. Lure…

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