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Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

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Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#951

Post by BizarroLand »

dalyons wrote: post #935
BizarroLand wrote: post #930

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word "can" in your sentence is making some bold assumptions about my vehicle budget. The R1T Dual with Max battery (the combo that gets an estimated 400+ mile range) is $95,000. That would be about a $1,300/month loan for 6 years. I would either need to add $30,000 annual pre-tax to my income or to pay off every debt other than my house to even begin to consider that as an option, and there are so many other thin…

oh sure yeah, they're expensive (although used are getting cheaper!). I didn't read "holding out for a 400m range" as "holding out for a 400m range less than $X". But yes, all the long range EVs, rivian, lucid, are expensive today. I think it will take another year or two for more affordable long range options to come out in the rest of the world, and some unknown years after that for them to hit the US due to protec…

Yeah, it's bizarroland out there.

I wouldn't mind so much if all I had to worry about was making car payments, but having an entire life to support and car payments puts some brakes on my purchasing power.

I could swing $600/m if I needed to, but $1,300/m is a cheap mortgage or rent, not a car payment imho.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#952

Post by jazzyjackson »

scottyah wrote: post #339
jazzyjackson wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also the fact that many truck deliveries were literally DOA as in the truck bricked itself in the driveway.

This isn't even remotely true though?

I don't know man maybe I hallucinated all the news coverage

https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/teslas-cybertruc...

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#953

Post by loeg »

rootusrootus wrote: post #649
loeg wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~60 kWh still takes 18 minutes to charge at 200kW, and 200kW is a relatively optimistic average charge speed for most EVs at this time. Bigger batteries, or slower charge rates, take longer.

That's more of a Tesla thing. The Korean EVs have a more modern 800V setup and get much closer to the 400kW charger rating. Ford also lags in this department because they're using 400V and a big battery, which isn't a great combo.

The Hyundai/Kia EVs see peak charging above 200kW on chargers that support enough amperage (and native voltage), but not necessarily average charging above that rate. (I'm familiar; I own one.)

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#954

Post by loeg »

ceejayoz wrote: post #896
loeg wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does this factor in cost of ownership? Gas, oil changes, less complexity? No, I'm just talking about sticker price. Lifetime EV costs are relatively unknown at this point, so that would be a relatively speculative comparison. You have to have a pretty optimistic view on long-term EV maintenance costs and charging costs to have EVs pencil out better with long-term cost of ownership. If you want to talk about ongoing…

> No, I'm just talking about sticker price. So a car that's free to operate - zero maintenance, zero fuel cost - that cost $10k more than a regular car would not be a financial win? Sticker price is a silly metric to solely focus on. Doubly so considering people rarely actually pay sticker.

> So a car that's free to operate - zero maintenance, zero fuel cost - that cost $10k more than a regular car would not be a financial win?

You're just throwing around fictional numbers. EVs don't have zero maintenance costs or zero fuel costs. Real numbers for fuel can be lower than gas (in particular if you have home charging), and you could certainly color an argument that maintenance costs are lower. But it's not zero. Brand new gas or hybrid cars also have very low maintenance costs.

> Sticker price is a silly metric to solely focus on. Doubly so considering people rarely actually pay sticker.

Pretend I wrote "average out the door price" instead of "sticker." This number is higher than comparable ICE/hybrid vehicles, and for pretty obvious reason -- high capacity batteries are still enormously expensive. This is why range+price tends to be worse than similar gas/hybrid cars. I expect battery prices to continue to fall in the future, which will improve the economics for BEVs. But that's in the future! Not today.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#955

Post by yencabulator »

mcny wrote: post #639
mc3301 wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That new Slate pickup looks pretty cool.

I have never owned a truck or a new car and I might buy one if they can truly keep the slate under 20knincluding delivery and all taxes and fees.

F-150 Lightning was supposed to start at $39,974 and ended up at $54,780. I'll be surprised to see Slate actually happening under $30k. Having lost the $7,500 rebate, more like $35k.

USA seemingly can't sell small or base trim cars.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#956

Post by xiphias2 »

thatsit wrote: post #895
xiphias2 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not only US, it's global. I drive quite a lot throught southern Europe with my EV, and it's super frustrating that gas stations have the infrastructure on the highway while for my EV I have to go just outside the highway to a fast charger (wasting time), then I need to pay again (and waste a lot of time to go through the gate) to get back on the highway for example in Italy.

Toll gates in general are a waste of time. I use bip&go + telepass lanes in Italy to get through them faster.

I will order it, thanks! I see that it's good for 4 countries, that's great

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#957

Post by yencabulator »

nospice wrote: post #590
mrexroad wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo. Sprinter vans, utility vans, or even minivans are far, far more useful for trades than modern pickups. Heck, my minivan was the goat for home renovations—it’d easily fit a dozen full 4x8 sheets of drywall/osb/ply/mdf/etc and I could still close the rear gate. I always got chuckles from guys awkwardly wrangling/securing sheets onto a pickup’s bed at the supply yard when I’d easily slide the sheets off the cart…

I think there's basically one 4x4 van on the market in the US right now. So you're making a pretty bad generalization here. In the Bay Area, it's probably true that a van would work well, although I lived in a mixed-income neighborhood and all the construction guys had beater pickups. But if you live in a place with snow and unpaved residential roads, 4x4 is pretty much a must (and pickups can be also be used for plo…

Ford Transit and Sprinter both have AWD. GMC apparently has a 4x4 van, the other 4x4 vans are aftermarket.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#958

Post by yencabulator »

driverdan wrote: post #672
nospice wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's basically one 4x4 van on the market in the US right now. So you're making a pretty bad generalization here. In the Bay Area, it's probably true that a van would work well, although I lived in a mixed-income neighborhood and all the construction guys had beater pickups. But if you live in a place with snow and unpaved residential roads, 4x4 is pretty much a must (and pickups can be also be used for plo…

No vans are currently sold in the US with 4WD. The Sprinter and Transit are available in AWD, that's it. There are companies that will convert a van to 4WD but it's typically around $20,000 which is beyond the budget of most people.

2026 GMC Savana 3500 is first-party 4x4.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#959

Post by yencabulator »

eudamoniac wrote: post #898
mrexroad wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo. Sprinter vans, utility vans, or even minivans are far, far more useful for trades than modern pickups. Heck, my minivan was the goat for home renovations—it’d easily fit a dozen full 4x8 sheets of drywall/osb/ply/mdf/etc and I could still close the rear gate. I always got chuckles from guys awkwardly wrangling/securing sheets onto a pickup’s bed at the supply yard when I’d easily slide the sheets off the cart…

How do you fit a 40ft ladder inside a van? How about a mound of mulch or compost? How about hauling away customer's old plumbing or any number of filthy things you don't want in a car interior? Not to mention that when it contains heavy items like a large beam of wood, you often can't physically lift it out with those awkward van angles, but could in a truck bed. First of all I'm not convinced that the utility of the…

> How about hauling away customer's old plumbing or any number of filthy things you don't want in a car interior?

Funny story, the guys who demolished an old bathroom for us hauled the crap & dust away in a very dirty beater van (either a small cargo van or a minivan with rear seating removed, can't remember). It was their designated demolition vehicle.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#960

Post by labcomputer »

kalenx wrote: post #620
nospice wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's basically one 4x4 van on the market in the US right now. So you're making a pretty bad generalization here. In the Bay Area, it's probably true that a van would work well, although I lived in a mixed-income neighborhood and all the construction guys had beater pickups. But if you live in a place with snow and unpaved residential roads, 4x4 is pretty much a must (and pickups can be also be used for plo…

Since when? I sincerely do not understand that point about snow. I've lived in Canada (not southern Ontario) for most of my life and everyone had (and still mostly has) FWD. 4x4 was only for people actually going off road... I don't get how this is now a "must".

Since California required drivers to equip chains when driving in the mountains, unless they have AWD or 4x4. So, probably at least 70 years ago.
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