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Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

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Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#951

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd take that bet, were I a betting man. There are 0.85 vehicles per capita in the US. Making roads an average of 1/0.85 = 17.6% more expensive for car owners is very unlikely to break the bank for any significant number of people.

The current cost of owning and operating an automobile is around 12K USD assuming 15K miles driven yearly according to BTS [0]. This would push it up to a little over 14K USD. Then there's oil and gas subsidies that should be taken into account, since around 24% of oil consumption is from cars and light trucks. [1] Then there's some other factors that are hard to quantify but have a huge impact on taxes, like how low…

This wouldn't increase the total cost of "owning and operating an automobile" by 17.6%, just the portion of that which funds road construction. Hard to quantify exactly how much that is since it's currently just part of your taxes. I don't think it's included in the BTS numbers. At the federal level at least it's pretty insignificant, only 2% of the Federal budget at most (I doubt most would even notice a 17.6% * 2% = 0.35% increase in their federal taxes). If I'm reading things right, the DOT budget is an even lower percentage of my state taxes. I think most road construction is funded at a more local level than that though so it's hard to say the exact impact without looking at individual villages/towns/cities.

Oil and gas subsidies are an entirely separate debate which would have almost no effect on the costs of some types of cars (electric) anyway, so it's rather pointless to bring up in this context.

That Not Just Bikes video isn't showing "low density suburbs" being "subsidised by high density cities", it's showing low density parts of a city are subsided by high-density parts of that same city. That's still a fair point, but when I think of the suburbs I think of areas outside city limits, usually with their own separate governments and separate tax system. Those survive just fine without any such subsidies; low density parts of a city would be fine without them too.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#952

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately, the major obsessed with getting rid of cars (which I am highly grateful) but forgot to provide reliable public transport to close-by villages (max 5km,i.e., Poio/Marin/Salcedo). He can't! Mayors in Spain do not have the authority to establish public transportation outside their municipality, as is the case of the villages you mention. That would fall under the authority of the Xunta de Galicia, which…

I'm looking for a place to move to in 5-10 years, and A Coruña is one of the places I've been researching! A friend from Spain says it's too cloudy/rainy. What do you think about the weather and any points in general about your city?

Maybe I shouldn't answer because housing is becoming prohibitively expensive so I shouldn't incentivize people to come here, but people have helped me in HN in the past :) So I'll do it.

In my view it's a city with awesome quality of life. Indeed it's cloudy, rainy and windy but it's better than most Galician cities (cough, Santiago, cough) and not that bad in the grand scheme of things, depends on what you compare to. 20 or 30 years ago I used to very strongly prefer the climate in southern Spain to that in Galicia, but with climate change things have changed a lot. We now have an actual summer that lasts for 3-4 months (it used to be one month, with luck :)), winters are mild, and we don't have the sweltering summer heat that is common in other parts of Spain. If you really need a lot of sun you won't like it, but if you're OK with weather being somewhat unpredictable as long as temperatures are mild (to give you an idea, we use heating for around 5 months but only turn it on like ~1 hour a day, and we don't feel there is need for AC), I'd say it's fine.

In general, pros:

- Great surroundings with coast, beaches, cliffs, the port, etc.; everything easily reachable by foot or bike from the city center (there are beaches in the city center).

- A 12 km long seafront walk (also friendly for cycling and running) with nice surroundings and sights.

- Nice size, in my opinion: big enough to have plenty of things to do, but small enough to be manageable (in Madrid in theory you have more stuff to do, but in practice my friends who live there end up going to things in their district because moving around is cumbersome. In A Coruña it's easy to get to an event anywhere in the city).

- The city is extremely safe. I have been here for 20 years and I think in all that time I only got asked for money by a junkie at 3 AM once. Nothing more serious than that ever happened to me (and I used to go clubbing night a lot, and still often take walks at night).

- Punches above its weight when it comes to events. From St John's night (23rd June) to early September there are events literally every day - concerts, book/art/medieval/comic/science fairs, exhibitions, workshops, and so on. The rest of the year not so much but still more than in other cities I know of comparable size.

- Also lots of things to do with children, if you have them. Many events specifically for them, apart from not one but three science museums plus an aquarium. And of course the above mentioned beaches.

- Like many Spanish cities, it has plenty of lively walkable streets to go shopping, for some wine/tapas, dining, etc. A lot of street life, unless in very rainy days.

- Galician food is top notch.

- While we are far from northern European levels of bicycle usage, lately there has been quite a lot of progress, with bike lanes and a bike-sharing service that works quite well.

- The city is booming right now, the economy is going well, people have work, so there is a lot of activity in general. (This may change, though. A political change in Spain is incoming and IMO it's not going to be for the better).

- You can reach other interesting cities, like Santiago or Pontevedra, by highway or even better, by train. Santiago is less than half an hour away by train and they are frequent.

So-so:

- Public transport has room for improvement, but it works. Maybe with some wait but it'll take you anywhere.

Cons:

- Still too many cars and pollution for my taste (although we're making progress). Although of course, much less than in any US city, and the city is perfectly walkable.

- The amount of dogs is absolutely insane. Honestly, I travel a lot and I haven't seen a city even close to the amount of dogs you see here. I guess it's maybe not a con if you have one :) But to me it's very annoying, because there's always people that lets them loose near children or that doesn't pick up their excrements, so finding dog poo is very common. And it's difficult not to hear some neighbor with a dog that barks.

- Construction quality tends to be bad. Most buildings are from the 60s-70s boom, ugly blocks with poor insulation. Much of the housing prior to that has little natural light and much of the housing after that has little space.

- Also related to this, the city center, tourist areas and parts of the city by the sea, etc. are beautiful; but many neighborhoods are ugly as hell, full of soulless blocks that have little to envy from Soviet architecture.

- Housing prices are skyrocketing both for buying and renting.

- Since we are in a corner of Spain, traveling tends to be inconvenient. We do have high-speed rail to Madrid which works very well, but if you want to go further, you typically need to take a flight to Madrid or Barcelona and there are not many, so layovers tend to get long.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#953

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your perspective is really skewed here. 80k is easily enough to support multiple hospitals, specialist doctors, many dentists, and several multi hundred employee specialized companies.

Side note: an hospital in Spain can be a relatively building with a few specialists, perhaps 20 people working here counting the staff. On many other countries an hospital is a huge building with dozens of specialists. The small places are "medical/care center". For sure there’s specialized jobs here too.

Clinics with 20 workers are not typically called hospitals, but rather "Centro de salud" or "Ambulatorio".

A "hospital" is a place with beds where patients stay overnight. All the countries where I have lived, including Spain, make this distinction.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#954

I really love these posts almost as much as i love the signs blocking cars from a certain area of my city's center, except for -amongst the common sense exceptions- cars owned by the office of the mayor. Rules for thee, or something or other. Is it fair to have more public transportation, bike lanes, bus lanes, walkable paths? yes. Is it fair to lock entire urban areas from cars? Not at all.

I think there's a distinction between limiting cars and banning them outright

Yeah, semantics. In the end, the outcome is the same.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#955
post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in Manhattan (Chelsea) and took the subway to work and most other outings (when I could not walk) in the few years before Covid. It was fine. You would get some people trying to sell stuff or in some kind of distress, but it was not all the time and it was easy to manage. Americans who don't live in dense cities (and use transit) seem to be obsessed with the idea that these are some intolerable dystopias that…

I found the density of Manhattan oppressive and stifling. Coming from Wrigleyville, in Chicago, it felt very impersonal and alienating. I ended up buying a house in an internal suburb (a former suburb from the 1930s that had been swallowed by the city) that is also a historic neighborhood (so it's character cannot be destroyed by developers).

It’s fine that not everyone likes the same things.

What bother me is a loud minority of anti-urbanists complaining about cities they don’t live in and pushing for policies that hurt them. All while economic data clearly shows cities are more productive and subsidize they rest of society.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#956
post #298

I feel like a bit of a failure when it comes to transport. I tried for many years to cycle to work in Dublin covering 25km on an ebike, but gave up after several nasty incidents that almost resulted in serious injury (for example my head almost going under the wheel of a van). I've experienced so much hatred, verbal and physical violence from drivers — and I'm the kind of cyclist that is fully lit, clad in high-vis a…

This is a problem when the public transport system isn't built with these exact issues in mind. You're right, it shouldn't take 2 hours for that commute, and all the other issues you pointed out are legitimate. The problem is that the infrastructure hasn't been adapted to make things better for the people using public transport. As a comparison to the Netherlands, public transport always has right of way vs regular t…

The Dutch model is frequently cited by campaigners here as how things should be done. Unfortunately, as you point out, our government doesn’t really care. Investment is a patchwork of half arsed attempts here and there depending on local pressure. There are only two tram lines in the country and people keep driving their cars into the trams. Bus lanes are clogged with taxis and the Gardai (police) are absent from our roads.

A recent local council attempt to remove a couple of parking spaces and install a shared space in the area I live was met with a wave of anger and vitriolic abuse. In a public consultation people were complaining about how it would prevent them bringing some elderly relative to the GP in the snow, while transporting a fridge. Meanwhile the area is permanently clogged with cars dodging a nearby toll making the place extremely unpleasant to use as an amenity.

It’s incredibly frustrating and saddening to contribute to the problems after trying so hard to do better.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#957

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mixed use zoning and some rules on what businesses can open would go a long way. Where I live I can walk to a small downtown that spans a few blocks with a train station. Unfortunately there is no where to buy groceries. There's like 3 ice cream shops, 3 pizza joints, and 9 salons though.

Is there no demand for grocery stores? Seems like they naturally would pop up to fill demand

Grocery stores are pretty low-margin, and need a certain amount of demand (for the size Americans are used to).

Some convenience stores get moderately close to being a grocery store.

It'd be an interesting experiment to see how few products you could carry (and of course, only one of each type) and have people still willing to shop there.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#958

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least one wealthy family in NYC I met doesn't use surface transport for much... they use helicopters or have things/people/shopping/restaurants brought to them. Had an experience where a store sent tailors, stylists, a manager, and a ton of inventory so that they could clothes shop while still in their home. Apparently, this was "normal". My shock was a source of great amusement to them. They did the same thing wi…

I don’t think your wealthy acquaintances are representative. I’ve lived in NYC my entire life, and I know plenty of wealthy people. Most take the subway; a small but not insignificant minority drive or are driven everywhere.

I think we're talking about the difference between millionaires and billionaires (they are definitely billionaires).

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#959

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is not just car-centric. It is "private mobility"-centric. In towns, and large towns especially, public mobility should be the rule and private one the exception. If any. And maybe also for long distance mobility.

Might I suggest bikes are a great form of private mobility?

Only for short hauls.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#960

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah, I had a feeling that was a NJB video. It is generally surreal to me that even smaller settlements in Europe have more, shall we say, evolvability than North American ones, and (at least in some cases owing to their antiquity) prioritize the needs of pedestrians.

Interestingly the town in the video is actually quite new- built in the eighties.

Yeah I went to an informal town hall recently at my library about bike commuting in our city. An older gent was pretty adamant that our suburb has pretty much always been car-dependent and couldn't ever be anything else, and didn't care much for my reply that many European cities were on track to be the same until the 70s.
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