US High school students' scores fall in reading and math • Hacker News Board

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#951

Post by ddtaylor » Thu, Sep 11, 2025, 5:40 AM UTC

clipsy wrote: post #273

runjake wrote: post #101

- The Pandemic really set that generation of kids back, particularly kids who were in elementary during that time. - Public school is essentially daycare. They try to integrate special education students more into the regular classrooms, but the teachers end up spending disproportionate time dealing with them and their behavioral issues, which hurts learning for regular students. - I don't have strong, set in stone o…

If public school is essentially daycare, why did the pandemic set a generation of kids back?

Because it was essentially solitary confinement of children. It's not normal for developing brains to be isolated like that.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#952

Post by monkeyelite » Thu, Sep 11, 2025, 5:51 AM UTC

etempleton wrote: post #879

monkeyelite wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some examples of consequences they would enforce?

First offense > phone goes in a lock box for the day Second offense > in school suspension Third offense > out of school suspension

Schools won’t suspend problem students

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#953

Post by chithanh » Thu, Sep 11, 2025, 7:05 AM UTC

bediger4000 wrote: post #123

My youngest is now 19, but all of my kids had "common core" math in Denver Public Schools. That was an utter travesty. I had the tail end of the "new math", and it was obvious even then that arithmetic drills were monumental wastes of times. Apparently, the common core folks had not heard of pocket calculators, or calculator apps on cell phones. If "math" does not account for reality, of course people are going to tr…

For the first years of school, it is actually very beneficial to pretend that calculators don't exist.

Students must be accustomed to do simple arithmetic without the help of a calculator, or else their mathematical abilities will be negatively impacted. Same for learning multiplication tables, recognizing the associations between the numbers is important.

Only when they begin to calculate things which exceed the number of mental tokens that they can handle, then they can start using a calculator with no ill effects.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#954

Post by zigzag312 » Thu, Sep 11, 2025, 7:07 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #820

jmpman wrote: post #693

My son is taking a woodworking class in high school. First week, he came home and I asked him what he was doing in his woodworking class… “Disassembling the library bookcases”. “Why???” “Because they’re getting rid of the library”. Apparently the school board decided to save money by cutting the librarian, and then decided to just move the books out of the school library and into the “nearby” public library. In reali…

> there were 95 books in the school library which were being questioned by some parents. Instead of removing just those books, and being accused of book banning Would those parents really have support in your community if they were named and shamed?

Shame, shame, shame... is that really the way we should be dealing with things, or is there any better way?

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#955

Post by zigzag312 » Thu, Sep 11, 2025, 7:09 AM UTC

jmpman wrote: post #940

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #820

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there were 95 books in the school library which were being questioned by some parents. Instead of removing just those books, and being accused of book banning Would those parents really have support in your community if they were named and shamed?

The town I’m in has grown 1000% in the last 20 years. The original residents were almost all from a very conservative religious group. That group had power over all politics back then, and have retained power today. They’re very aligned with removing the books, and there’s no communication to the 90% of parents in the district who, although conservative, aren’t from the previously dominant religious group. They do it…

People in power pushing their ideology is a common thing. Not exclusive to religious people.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#956

Post by int_19h » Thu, Sep 11, 2025, 7:41 AM UTC

georgeecollins wrote: post #915

alchemical_piss wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The future needs serfs, not readers.

Perhaps, but the past also needed more serfs than readers. I don't think that is good, but maybe it is too idealistic to think you can create a nation of 330m critical thinkers. Not because it isn't possible, but because not everyone wants to approach life that way.

The past needed more serfs than readers until the Industrial Revolution, but once we got those going, all that machinery required skilled people to operate.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#957

Post by geocar » Thu, Sep 11, 2025, 7:41 AM UTC

jmpman wrote: post #946

geocar wrote: post #913

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which were being questioned by some parents I doubt that: My experience is that people who complain about books don't read them, let alone understand them enough to "question" them. > This society has priorities which aren’t education. Forgive me, but it's your society: You live there. It's that way because of you. I know that sucks to hear; it's not all your fault; it seems like there is a lot of inertia; and you…

As for the books being questioned by other parents - I was only aware of it when I searched for the high school name and library on Twitter. First and only hit was for a parent posting a link to some website that alerts parents for books with questionable content in their children’s libraries. Had they read the books? Of course not, but the web site allows you to read all the questionable passages. The tweet was advo…

> read all the questionable passages

This is what I mean: There aren't "questionable passages"

Giving their voice that credit is not necessary.

> The tweet was advocating for the school board to remove the books

People have been putting personals up in newspapers since there were ever newspapers, but a publication or channel is not a discussion forum, and you aren't required to treat it like that.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#958

Post by int_19h » Thu, Sep 11, 2025, 7:47 AM UTC

geocar wrote: post #913

jmpman wrote: post #693

My son is taking a woodworking class in high school. First week, he came home and I asked him what he was doing in his woodworking class… “Disassembling the library bookcases”. “Why???” “Because they’re getting rid of the library”. Apparently the school board decided to save money by cutting the librarian, and then decided to just move the books out of the school library and into the “nearby” public library. In reali…

> which were being questioned by some parents I doubt that: My experience is that people who complain about books don't read them, let alone understand them enough to "question" them. > This society has priorities which aren’t education. Forgive me, but it's your society: You live there. It's that way because of you. I know that sucks to hear; it's not all your fault; it seems like there is a lot of inertia; and you…

I don't think we have a singular society at this point. As in, we've got large majorities on both sides who simply don't see their opposition as a part of their society, but rather as external threats to it.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#959

Post by geocar » Thu, Sep 11, 2025, 8:02 AM UTC

jmpman wrote: post #945

geocar wrote: post #913

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which were being questioned by some parents I doubt that: My experience is that people who complain about books don't read them, let alone understand them enough to "question" them. > This society has priorities which aren’t education. Forgive me, but it's your society: You live there. It's that way because of you. I know that sucks to hear; it's not all your fault; it seems like there is a lot of inertia; and you…

I live in a town of over 200k people. When I moved here, it was 12k residents, and dominated by religious conservatives. When I graduated high school, I vowed to never return. My wife however had other ideas, and as soon as my kids were school age, we were back. The town remains politically dominated by the same conservative religious group, even though they’re less than 20% of the population. Could I go to the schoo…

> When I graduated high school, I vowed to never return. My wife however had other ideas, and as soon as my kids were school age, we were back

Listen brother, if you do something, it is your choice. Nobody can make your choices for you. Not the government. Not a god. Not even your wife.

And the choice to do nothing is still a choice.

> Could I go to the school board meetings and raise and issue? Sure, but my son, who would be the recipient of any retribution, requested I not.

You are the adult: You are making this choice.

Your son is the recipient of the future you are creating whether you like it or not.

And what will happen is son's children (if they have any) will have a slightly worse version of the problem you are facing, because of the choices you are making.

> Even if I win a seat on the board, I’d be just one of 7, and nothing would change.

Nonsense. It always starts with one.

Didn't you know the first black person to sit in the front of the bus was just one person?

I bet if you try you can think of a lot of firsts that led to change.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#960

Post by geocar » Thu, Sep 11, 2025, 10:04 AM UTC

int_19h wrote: post #958

geocar wrote: post #913

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which were being questioned by some parents I doubt that: My experience is that people who complain about books don't read them, let alone understand them enough to "question" them. > This society has priorities which aren’t education. Forgive me, but it's your society: You live there. It's that way because of you. I know that sucks to hear; it's not all your fault; it seems like there is a lot of inertia; and you…

I don't think we have a singular society at this point. As in, we've got large majorities on both sides who simply don't see their opposition as a part of their society, but rather as external threats to it.

Society is the conditions of living with other people; you do not get your society and my society because if we can both coexist it is the same society.

There are a lot of unwell people; Some of them it might be a literal genetic mental illness, but a lot of them probably only ever experienced joy after misery, and never saw real kindness.

I think you should treat "those" people as if they were abused and vulnerable humans with broken brains, and how you treat "those" people is how I think you will treat other abused and vulnerable humans with broken brains.