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My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

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Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#951
> Meanwhile, software developers spot code fragments seemingly lifted from public repositories on Github and lose their shit. What about the licensing? If you’re a lawyer, I defer. But if you’re a software developer playing this card? Cut me a little slack as I ask you to shove this concern up your ass. No profession has demonstrated more contempt for intellectual property.

I was willing to read until I got to this part. He can shove this drivel up his own ass for all I care if that's how he thinks. What a waste of time.

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#953

I'm working with python and it does not work very well, LLMs usually generates at least an order of magnitude more code than what I would write. That code often uses outdated practices, does poor design choices and does not understand hints like writing code in a way that reduce cognitive load, even when we explain that it means, i.e. keep the number of classes and functions small. It's the complete opposite of OP's…

I use Cursor with Python and it works great. Things you should try:

  * use type hints everywhere.
  * use dataclasses everywhere.
  * add the dataclass files to your prompt.
  * if the produced code is too complex, ask the LLM "Is this the simplest and cleanest way to solve this?"

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#954

I think this article is pretty spot on — it articulates something I’ve come to appreciate about LLM-assisted coding over the past few months. I started out very sceptical. When Claude Code landed, I got completely seduced — borderline addicted, slot machine-style — by what initially felt like a superpower. Then I actually read the code. It was shockingly bad. I swung back hard to my earlier scepticism, probably even…

> Did Photoshop kill graphic artists? Did film kill theatre? Not really. Things changed, sure. Was it “better”?

My obligatory comment how analogies are not good for arguments: there is already discussion here that film (etc.) may have killed theatre.

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#955

Title nitpick: The amount is people who care about AI for coding assistance is a relative minority. For everyone else, there's 'AI', which has a huge branding problem. 'AI' is filling all search results with trash, and creating trash websites full of trash to fill up the rest of the search results. It's generating trash images to put at the top of every blog post. It's eating up all the server load with scraping. It'…

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Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#956
post #312

This article does not touch on the thing which worries me the most with respect to LLMs: the dependence . Unless you can run the LLM locally, on a computer you own, you are now completely dependent on a remote centralized system to do your work. Whoever controls that system can arbitrarily raise the prices, subtly manipulate the outputs, store and do anything they want with the inputs, or even suddenly cease to opera…

> Unless you can run the LLM locally, on a computer you own, you are now completely dependent on a remote centralized system to do your work.

To be fair, the entire internet is basically this already.

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#958

I'm on the side of AI is a huge productivity booster (by my guess... 10x) But I don't want to make the claim lightly, so I did an experiment. I signed up for copilot pro, and have been using their 'edit' feature. This is more than just their auto complete. I set myself a goal to create a playable web game of classic frogger. It took 4 hours with copilot "edit" and my full attention. I didn't write a single line of co…

So less than 10x already.

Question, how familiar are you with the used technologies? My experience on where Ai have been useful so far is things I don't have a good understanding on but, when I do, its a different ball game, mostly because coding it directly seems faster since I know exactly the behaviour I am looking for and I am not having to deal with unintended consequences.

I see it as the Alice cat thing, when you don't know where you going, any road will take you there. So its been great for exploratory work and prototyping.

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#959

I've only just realized how bad AI is for me, in a manner I didn't at all expect. I don't use it. I don't want to use it. I hate it. As another commenter here nicely put it, I want to do, not tell. I like writing code. I like solving problems. I like doing the work myself. I like struggling and then, the next day, finding that my capabilities have grown. And yet I'm overwhelmingly demoralized and depressed about AI's…

It's enough that I consider peacing out. Not out of life, mind, but out to the woods on a permanent basis. I want zero proximity to the cynicism that runs rampant through the industry because it's so much more difficult to discern useful hype from slop than I could have ever imagined. The bastards are winning.

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#960

I think this article is pretty spot on — it articulates something I’ve come to appreciate about LLM-assisted coding over the past few months. I started out very sceptical. When Claude Code landed, I got completely seduced — borderline addicted, slot machine-style — by what initially felt like a superpower. Then I actually read the code. It was shockingly bad. I swung back hard to my earlier scepticism, probably even…

One of the things I think is going on here is a sort of stone soup effect. [1] Core to Ptacek's point is that everything has changed in the last 6 months. As you and I presume he agree, the use of off-the-shelf LLMs in code was kinda garbage. And I expect the skepticism he's knocking here ("stochastic parrots") was in fact accurate then. But it did get a lot of people (and money) to rush in and start trying to make s…

"nother counterfactual that we'll never know is what kinds of tooling we would have gotten if people had dumped a few billion dollars into code tool improvement without LLMs, but with, say, a lot of more conventional ML tooling. Would the tools we get be much better? Much worse? About the same but different in strengths and weaknesses? Impossible to say."

You'll not only never know this, it's IMHO not very useful to think about at all, except as an intellectual exercise.

I wish i could impress this upon more people.

A friend similarly used to lament/complain that Kotlin sucked in part because we could have probably accomplished it's major features in Java, and maybe without tons of work, or migration cost.

This is maybe even true!

as an intellectual exercise, both are interesting to think about. But outside of that, people get caught up in this as if it matters, but it doesn't.

Basically nothing is driven by pure technical merit alone, not just in CS, but in any field. So my point to him was the lesson to take away from this is not "we could have been more effective or done it cheaper or whatever" but "my definition of effectiveness doesn't match how reality decides effectiveness, so i should adjust my definition".

As much as people want the definition to be a meritocracy, it just isn't and honestly, seems unlikely to ever be.

So while it's 100% true that billions of dollars dumped into other tools or approaches or whatever may have have generated good, better, maybe even amazing results, they weren't, and more importantly, never would have been. Unknown but maybe infinite ROI is often much more likely to see investment than more known but maybe only 2x ROI.

and like i said, this is not just true in CS, but in lots of fields.

That is arguably quite bad, but also seems unlikely to change.

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