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A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

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Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#951

The US is falling way behind in electric vehicles. If BYD could sell in the US, the US auto industry would be crushed.[1] What went wrong is that 1) Tesla never made a low-end vehicle, despite announcements, and 2) all the other US manufacturers treated electric as a premium product, resulting in the overpowered electric Hummer 2 and F-150 pickups with high price tags. The only US electric vehicle with comparable pri…

You missed a big elephant in the room 4) China did a significant subsidies for BYD factories. If USA did similar % wise thing to Tesla then we would’ve have $20k teslas driving.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#952

The US is falling way behind in electric vehicles. If BYD could sell in the US, the US auto industry would be crushed.[1] What went wrong is that 1) Tesla never made a low-end vehicle, despite announcements, and 2) all the other US manufacturers treated electric as a premium product, resulting in the overpowered electric Hummer 2 and F-150 pickups with high price tags. The only US electric vehicle with comparable pri…

You missed a big elephant in the room 4) China did a significant subsidies for BYD factories. If USA did similar % wise thing to Tesla then we would’ve have $20k teslas driving.

China subsidized EVs in the same way that America did (tax credits), and less aggressively so. Unless you mean incentives from Shenzhen and getting taxi companies to early adopt? They also added incentives in getting a car at all in cities like Beijing (EVs started out in a different lottery allocation for plates)?

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#953

The US is falling way behind in electric vehicles. If BYD could sell in the US, the US auto industry would be crushed.[1] What went wrong is that 1) Tesla never made a low-end vehicle, despite announcements, and 2) all the other US manufacturers treated electric as a premium product, resulting in the overpowered electric Hummer 2 and F-150 pickups with high price tags. The only US electric vehicle with comparable pri…

You missed a big elephant in the room 4) China did a significant subsidies for BYD factories. If USA did similar % wise thing to Tesla then we would’ve have $20k teslas driving.

It's more like BYD winning the race in China's auto industry. China has over a hundred automakers, most making low-end cars.[1] Some are state-owned, some are province-owned, some are privately owned. BYD is privately owned and doing well.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automobile_manufacture...

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#954

The US is falling way behind in electric vehicles. If BYD could sell in the US, the US auto industry would be crushed.[1] What went wrong is that 1) Tesla never made a low-end vehicle, despite announcements, and 2) all the other US manufacturers treated electric as a premium product, resulting in the overpowered electric Hummer 2 and F-150 pickups with high price tags. The only US electric vehicle with comparable pri…

>2) all the other US manufacturers treated electric as a premium product, resulting in the overpowered electric Hummer 2 and F-150 pickups with high price tags

They had to in order to build the manufacturing capacity without literally bankrupting themselves. As GM has shown, once they had the expertise and manufacturing capabilities, they could quickly move downmarket. By all accounts GM's entry into the space has been a raging success, moving downmarket with the Equinox being available for as low as $27,500.

They obviously aren't to Tesla level sales numbers yet, but they're growing rapidly and I would not count them out of the fight.

https://insideevs.com/news/746177/general-motors-record-2024...

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#955

The US is falling way behind in electric vehicles. If BYD could sell in the US, the US auto industry would be crushed.[1] What went wrong is that 1) Tesla never made a low-end vehicle, despite announcements, and 2) all the other US manufacturers treated electric as a premium product, resulting in the overpowered electric Hummer 2 and F-150 pickups with high price tags. The only US electric vehicle with comparable pri…

I think one of the biggest problems in the United States is the misallocation of ambitious people. The highly educated and ambitious people see finance, government, tech, and corporate executive tracks, as the way to convert their energies into social status. Even startups these days seem to be a case of too many chiefs, not enough Indians.

I think the bigger problem is we filter for conmen. You can become a billionaire for vaporware and are less likely to if you actually ship something.

There are plenty of smart people who are highly passionate about things other than money. The problem is a large portion aren't at top name universities and doing don't have the connections. Problem is, they spent all their time learning their craft and not how to market their ideas.

I disagree that it's just because those jobs pay well. Look at what people are investing in and how it works. We throw tons of money at obviously bad ideas, obvious cons, and anyone that took a semester at Stanford. There are plenty of Bitcoin billionaires! There's tons who have made riches off the VR hype wave before that.

I agree that we put too much focus on finance and the like but I think more importantly we have a system where you can get ultra wealthy for producing vaporware. It's much easier to build hype than build a product. You still get people who become millionaires & billionaires by shipping things, but we created a system where we reward conmen. Ultimately, the con is easier than the actual job.

There's a lot of that tech can do but let's be honest, our industry has capitalized on the boom and bust cycle and accelerated it. We're not the only ones, but we're a big player and it's easier to hold our own community accountable than get others to change.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#956

And the worst thing is that Elon could've been a living legend by building/funding colleges and schools focused on the tech his companies need, software development, robotics etc. Or even given out million dollar scholarships for the very top students. And he still would've been worth over 250 billion easily. Instead he chose to buy the president and start "optimising" the government with AI.

Elon has proven to truly be the dumbest smart guy ever. He alienated Tesla’s core customers; tree hugging liberals, and anyone who cares about sustainability. The GOP nor their voters care and never will. I called this Tesla stock crash months ago; did not act on it though.

He was smart. Then he started using drugs. Since then, he's made a lot of mistakes. It's pretty simple.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#957
post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anybody know how it got to this point? It can't be because of regulatory capture, right? I don't think small cars are getting made for the US because of SUV mania and something like a 67 MPG requirement for the Honda Fit based on it's build.

> I don't think small cars are getting made for the US because of SUV mania and something like a 67 MPG requirement for the Honda Fit based on it's build. The famous 67MPG requirement was for a hypothetical 2026 model year car But Honda discontinued the Fit in the United States in 2020, long before the hypothetical 2026 target. The reason is consumer demand. People weren't buying them. There are thousands of lightly…

“Reasonable prices” open to some debate. There’s such a premium to the Honda nameplate that the prices that “lightly used” ones go for make them a tough proposition over buying new. (Which of course, is no longer an option for the Fit.) From a look at prices in Canada, used 5-year-old 2020 model Fits are going for more than they did new.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#958
post #822
post #806

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this lack of forward thinking somewhat the general problem now? From an EU perspective the world as it has existed in the living memory is a world shaped by decisive US-actions. The way EVs have been approached were anything but that. Arguably neither did Germany, because of the way their politicians are entangled with the car manufacturers.

Germany actively hampered it by promoting diesel as THE greeen fuel.

Yes, as I hinted at in the last sentence of my comment.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#959
The discourse around this thing is hilarious. For years people have been saying “I just want a small, simple truck with no frills and a reasonable price.”

Now, one is finally available, and all the commentary is “Oh, I’m in the target market for this, but I just need them to add:”

- more room for passengers - more payload - an infotainment screen for nav - more room in the bed - more towing capacity - screens in the seats for kids - an app to “manage” it

Guess what! This is why the best-selling vehicles are large trucks, because they give the most people what they want.

Everyone wants a small and cheap and simple car with all the comforts of big and expensive cars. Reality doesn’t work that way!

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#960
post #959

The discourse around this thing is hilarious. For years people have been saying “I just want a small, simple truck with no frills and a reasonable price.” Now, one is finally available, and all the commentary is “Oh, I’m in the target market for this, but I just need them to add:” - more room for passengers - more payload - an infotainment screen for nav - more room in the bed - more towing capacity - screens in the…

It's the Microsoft Office paradigm in automotive form. Nobody uses more than 20% of the features in Word or Excel, but nobody uses the same 20%, so it's basically a useless observation. You can't just chop 80% of the features out and still end up with a widely-used product.

They can't sell a vehicle in the US market without a screen, in any case, due to the need for a backup camera.

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