Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#951

Post by Aeolun » Thu, Jan 16, 2025, 12:03 PM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #698

PaulHoule wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The principal always told me "just walk away" and I said, "You fool, the bullies have legs". The key thing that enables bullying is your being confined in a space with them. Bullying can leave scars that last a lifetime that will affect your employment, your relationships, your children, everything. Not least hearing complete crap from authorities primes you to distrust authorities unconditionally.

I can see why an adult who's never dealt with these difficulties in childhood would give that sort of advice, but it's bewildering how school administrators weren't (and probably still aren't) trained on the reality that "just walk away" is a platitude in the context of an environment where bullies have a captive audience. It reminds me of how we were told "stick and stones will break my bones but words will never hu…

I’ve taken away more from Ender’s Game than from anything an adult ever told me. From what I’ve seen, breaking the bullies’s nose is very effective.

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#952

Post by BriggyDwiggs42 » Thu, Jan 16, 2025, 12:09 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #666

woodruffw wrote: post #164

> These tech parents are hackers by nature, and I think they’re convinced that in homeschooling they’ve happened on the ultimate life hack: just opt out of being around average people. It's difficult to feel optimistic about a society that thinks this way, much less has a cultural and economic elite that is seemingly emboldened to think this way. "Average" people are the norm, the reality that "not average" people wi…

> Learning how to co-exist with people who aren't like you A billion times this. School is not to train you on Math, English or Science. It's also to teach you how to cooperate, how to reach consensus, how to make decisions as a group, and so on. These soft skills are absolutely critical to maintain a properly functioning society.

I really couldn’t learn that from my experience in american k-12. I was too stubborn, emotionally stunted, and usually ahead of my peers, so I’d isolate myself and learn what I was interested in. I taught myself to make music, install and use linux, to write c++, to develop games etc on my laptop during and outside of classes, and the only reason I was even able to do that much was the disinterest and disregard of most teachers. Maybe that environment wasn’t the right one for me, and if it wasn’t, then it makes me wonder how many other people are underserved.

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#953

Post by cma256 » Thu, Jan 16, 2025, 12:47 PM UTC

inetknght wrote: post #91

ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if I agree with this. Schools are not exactly run by the government, rather local school districts. My (not data based) impression of school levies is that they nearly always get approved by voters, even in tax-averse areas, so if there is a lack of funding, it is usually real, rather than through a misplaced need to be "efficient".

> Schools are not exactly run by the government, rather local school districts. What gets approved by voters? Ahh, right, government services. How are those paid? By taxes. Who collects taxes? Governments, of course. I don't know where you are in the world. In the US, public schools are funded by government money counted by number of students and their test scores. So more students = more funding, better scores = mor…

In many places in the US, though probably not all, school districts levy their own taxes independent of municipal or county governments. The reason we might not describe school boards as "the government" is, well, they don't govern us and are distinct from the organizations which do. They don't have the power to levy taxes or pass laws. Its almost like a large co-op where all the citizens of an area fund and vote on the inner workings of the school.

And, as you say, they are regulated by the government but so is everyone and everything else. In my view, its appropriate to describe public schools as part of "the government" but I also respect the GP's view that they're independent enough to be describe as not "the government".

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#954

Post by crabbone » Thu, Jan 16, 2025, 1:05 PM UTC

programjames wrote: post #918

crabbone wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is similar to burning the house down, once you discover that you don't like the couch in the living room. Or, more realistically, arguing against taxation based on the idea that rich people avoid being taxed anyways, and it's only poor people who will get the short end of the stick. The school system isn't perfect, and is hard to improve due to many reasons, but this doesn't mean we shouldn't try. It ha…

> The school system isn't perfect, and is hard to improve due to many reasons, but this doesn't mean we shouldn't try. The people you hear giving up today have tried to fix the system. It's a little insulting to insinuate otherwise. When I was in high school, I tried to start a CS club, but no one was interested. I helped run MATHCOUNTS at the local middle school, and we had five people show up on a good day ( I don'…

I don't insinuate otherwise. It doesn't matter how much they tried. The way forward is to keep trying.

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#955

Post by crabbone » Thu, Jan 16, 2025, 1:15 PM UTC

programjames wrote: post #916

crabbone wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what is there to gain from it? Humility.

Humility is only considered a virtue because the vast majority of people rank their abilities too high. The GP is coming from an assumption that the person is ranked higher than those around them; humbling such a person makes the rankings even more inaccurate.

This is not why humility is considered a virtue. That's not at all how virtues work. In general, in ethics, there are schools of thought that try to derive ethics from the idea that particular behavior is beneficial to someone / a group in a short term / long term etc. or based on virtues, the transcendental rules that are beyond questioning. These rules don't have to have any tangible benefits, there can be no proof through experimentation that establishes that the rule is right or wrong. Usually, such rules are given through some extra-human authority (a divine revelation, a dream etc.)

People who build their ethics on virtues might believe that, for example, being brave is a virtue. And so, regardless of the consequences, they will aspire to be brave. Similarly, people who believe in virtues will see humility as worth pursuing regardless of whether it makes one better off, long term or short term. It's just good to be humble. End of story.

The reasoning behind non-virtue ethics is usually complicated and subject to debate. It also usually shows that rules derived through such reasoning could contradict the desirable outcomes (that we intuitively find desirable). One of the particularly dangerous and undesirable such outcomes is the belief in moral relativism that opens a door to justifying a lot of actions we'd intuitively find repugnant.

Virtue ethics avoids moral relativism simply by not trying to base ethics in experimentation. Which is why some philosophers find it an appealing approach.

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#956

Post by bill_joy_fanboy » Thu, Jan 16, 2025, 2:10 PM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #633

bill_joy_fanboy wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> forced internment for children Where I live (U.S.), new schools are literally built like prisons... each wing is laid out from a central "observation area" for the administrators. It's just a panopticon design modeled after penitentiaries. I was with my family in our new local high school. My dad and I were the only two who noticed the layout.

There's security checkpoints and police officers in bulletproof vests and carrying guns as well in some cases, because what if a school shooter shows up? Of course, when one does show up a hundred militarized police will show up and... do nothing, because what will the union do if one gets shot?

My favorite was the lady cop in Texas who said she would only "go in" if her kid was in there. Your kids? ... Not her problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--rt8aVV2zk

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#957

Post by adrianmsmith » Thu, Jan 16, 2025, 2:28 PM UTC

PaulHoule wrote: post #648

ravenstine wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm both glad and dismayed to hear that I'm not the only one who likens public school to prison. I went to school in California, and I would say my school experience became prison-like between grades 4 and 11. In fairness, I can now look back at my child self and realize that I was delayed in terms of emotional maturity, which contributed to my social problems, but the kind of environment I was in was the wrong one f…

The principal always told me "just walk away" and I said, "You fool, the bullies have legs". The key thing that enables bullying is your being confined in a space with them. Bullying can leave scars that last a lifetime that will affect your employment, your relationships, your children, everything. Not least hearing complete crap from authorities primes you to distrust authorities unconditionally.

> The principal always told me "just walk away"

I think the root of this problem is the principal-agent problem.

It literally doesn't matter to teachers (a) if you get bulled at school (they are not being bullied themselves) or (b) if you have problems later in life.

Maybe a bullied kid will completely lose it as an adult and murder a bunch of people. But does the teacher who completely failed to help them get arrested? No, therefore it just doesn't matter to them at all.

The only thing that would prevent this is teachers actually caring or being kind. And of course there are some that do and are. But relying on that isn't enough. There need to be right incentives set in order enable the majority of teachers to put in the effort to act in the right way.

(I don't know what that incentive structure looks like I'll admit.)

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#958

Post by arkey » Thu, Jan 16, 2025, 2:51 PM UTC

nprateem wrote: post #714

elpatokamo wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our two kids are homeschooled and are generally equally excited to play with all their friends (some homeschooled, some in regular public school, some in private school). I have yet to see or hear any "othering" of their friends. In fact, I'd say the breadth of different social situations they are exposed to makes the "othering" less likely.

Ever thought it might be the other way round? I'd send my kids private, but no way would I isolate them with home schooling. You're meant to do that on evenings and weekends anyway.

Isolation is not a requirement in home schooling. It can happen? Yes, it's a risk.

Can the opposite happen? Yes, I've seen it personally. My home schooled nephews know and are known by everyone in their village and surroundings. Sometimes I feel at 6 and 8 years old they have more diverse professional connections and acquaintances than I have right now.

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#959

Post by arkey » Thu, Jan 16, 2025, 2:57 PM UTC

froh wrote: post #605

synecdoche wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

”don't breed detached extremists” This doesn’t follow. In addition, there are plenty who fit that description who did go to a state school.

well, the German constitutional court thinks it does follow, indeed, and they are much smarter than I am in their argument: https://www.bundesverfassungsgericht.de/entscheidungen/rk200... In a nutshell, only schooling forces you to confront other beliefs in a way preparing you for life in a pluralistic society and thus schooling as such is a cornerstone in education. private schools German flavor are okay because the…

> only schooling forces you to confront other beliefs in a way preparing you for life in a pluralistic society and thus schooling as such is a cornerstone in education

That's absolute nonsense.

Public schooling grooms you to fit into a rigid, calculated mould for society. You learn which is the right way and things to think, and which ones are wrong and you're not allowed to think, according to the current government in place. Your comment exudes precisely that.

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#960

Post by arkey » Thu, Jan 16, 2025, 3:17 PM UTC

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #34

We are in an age where people who watch a youtube video think they know more than the experts. Being a good teacher is a skill and understanding childhood development is something that requires proper education. I'm not saying there is never a good reason to home-school your kid, but most people who do it are unqualified and from my limited experience the kids who are home schooled have huge holes in their education.…

> think they know more than the experts.

Ah, the experts. I have no sort of education in education at all. Why was I better (and still am) at helping mates learn and solve CS exercises at Uni than some of the expert and qualified teachers? A friend of mine recently started a CS course to pivot his professional career. When he doesn't understand what the teacher is on about, he comes to me for help.

I have huge respect for the concept of teachers, but sadly a lot of people are teachers because they didn't know what else to be.

> from my limited experience the kids who are home schooled have huge holes in their education

I don't want this to sound snarky at all, but I'd honestly be happy to provide you with real life cases that would broaden your experience and hopefully tilt your viewpoint.