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Priced out of home ownership

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Re: Priced out of home ownership

#951
post #274

People intuitively jump to the conclusion that the problem is caused by a lack of building. While more building would help, a lack of it isn't the main cause of this problem. Ask yourself, do Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the US, Britain, Ireland, etc, all have the same inability to build or is there maybe some other common cause? In my view this is symptomatic of a more fundamental issue - global asset price infla…

[deleted]

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#952
post #274

People intuitively jump to the conclusion that the problem is caused by a lack of building. While more building would help, a lack of it isn't the main cause of this problem. Ask yourself, do Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the US, Britain, Ireland, etc, all have the same inability to build or is there maybe some other common cause? In my view this is symptomatic of a more fundamental issue - global asset price infla…

Coming from another angle, this might not be a "problem" when you consider the greater scheme of things.

Being able to obtain assets, when you don't have any is a relatively new thing, historically speaking. One could also say that we were living in a brave new world of opportunities and growth for a few centuries. And now we are returning to the historical norm. One thing that all the examples you listed is that they could be seen as "late game" economies.

I might be totally wrong, though. This is just another angle.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#953
post #180

Stop subsidizing demand at the national level. Stop restricting supply at the local level.

That's not the problem at all. Stop allowing people to buy multiple homes. Stop allowing landlords to "collaborate" on prices.

If all second home owners were forced to sell, that'd still only add 500k properties, and it would displace in other ways seeing as many of those are used as holiday lets. Given the Gov reckons 500k is the number of households needed to be built per year is 500k it'd be helpful but not a panacea.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#954
post #180

Stop subsidizing demand at the national level. Stop restricting supply at the local level.

That's not the problem at all. Stop allowing people to buy multiple homes. Stop allowing landlords to "collaborate" on prices.

People's second homes are generally in locations near tourist hotspots. That causes it's own problems but it's not usually prime economic centres.

Housing location is really important, not just the total number of vacant properties.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#955

The UK made renting property a lot less lucrative a few years ago. Something about the tax position of letting mortgaged property. That meant landlords sold their houses - which I believe was broadly the point - and thus there are fewer places to rent and the cost of renting has increased to the new point of stability. I think this probably has decreased house prices to some extent, but people are really insanely rel…

A similar thing has happened in France, where the government has restricted the rental of less energy efficient dwellings[0]. This is generally a good thing for the environment, but it has already had an effect on rental prices as those apartments are now taken off the market. The exact impact is a little hard to work out, because, at least in Paris, it's also coincided with apartment owners wanting to hold on to emp…

That's also happened in the UK at the same time, but it's actually very difficult to bring many of the UK's pre-1930s households up to the minimum level without gutting the property and having it vacant for a period.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#956
post #274

People intuitively jump to the conclusion that the problem is caused by a lack of building. While more building would help, a lack of it isn't the main cause of this problem. Ask yourself, do Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the US, Britain, Ireland, etc, all have the same inability to build or is there maybe some other common cause? In my view this is symptomatic of a more fundamental issue - global asset price infla…

> In my view this is symptomatic of a more fundamental issue - global asset price inflation driven by a broken financial system (i.e. a system being artificially pumped up with cheap credit). I've been crowing on this since the 2008 crash. The cycle is this: 1. A person has a job, but can't afford things 2. They get credit to buy the things they want, in lieu of demanding better pay 3. Everyone does this, so demand g…

And if people start demanding a better pay the only thing that would change would be:

[...]

2. They demand a better pay

3. Everyone does this, so the cost of everything goes up and prices go up.

[...]

Unless that better pay is somehow tied to higher productivity and overall GDP increase it would not solve the problem.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#957
post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with spare bedrooms, this itself is a problem of undersupply. If you can't be sure of being able to trade up when you need to (e.g. after starting a family) because house prices are up 100% in 10 years, then you're going to want to buy a house for all possible future needs, rather than current needs. Add to that, things that might be desirable for other reasons, like garden space, rooms for use as offices,…

House ownership is higher among boomers, who are not going to have children anyway. Maybe for some people concern for future prices is a good reason, but certainly it is not for everyone. If there’s spare capacity enough for 20% more people and population growth forecast by 2050 is just one third of that, you cannot really talk about undersupply, when there’s enough accommodation to cover even future demand.

This assumes a level of fungibility that's just not there. Apart from the discussions elsewhere in this thread about why spare bedrooms might not be suitable to rent, even for those that are, splitting a family of 4 across 4 spare bedrooms in 4 different properties is suboptimal at best and legally child neglect at worst.

Equally, houses in Cornwall are of little use when the jobs are in London.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#958

U.K. view here... and I'd guess this applies the the majority of the world too. I was born in, grew up in and currently live in a location that the HN community never even thinks about. Most people in here have no idea of how the regular 99% live and then base their whole world view on expensive capital cities and hold the strangest views of housing. I bought my current house in the 2010s, my mortgage is still half t…

I think many people are missing your point, but I agree with you. I lived in London for 6 years after university. I am a Software Engineer, my wife is a Lawyer. Whilst we could afford to just about rent in the city, we couldn't buy towards the lifestyle we wanted to lead. So we moved to Leeds, 2hrs north by train.

Suddenly, the 1.5 bed flat we could afford in a good area of London became a 5 bed detached in the best area of Leeds - 15 minutes from the centre. We have huge parks, cinemas, waterfalls, cafes, public transport, swimming pools, yoga studios etc. all within 10 minutes of our house. This is the exact same stuff that I would crave and pay a premium for in London (or any other world city). However, I also have neighbours who are on minimum wage, also affording houses a few roads away from mine, getting to live that amazing lifestyle too. I would arguably say they are living better lifestyles than the majority of my peers in London who are finance bros, consultants, techies but stuck in flats or house shares in Peckham or wherever. This was a massive eye opening realisation for me, and I've recently come across the term 'Deano' to describe it.

Anyway - the answer in my opinion to the housing crisis is decentralisation. Make it feasible to continue to achieve at high levels, but in regional areas. Improve public transport to increase the effective population of these cities so businesses have larger talent pools to choose from, and thus it is more viable for them to relocate. STOP centring so much of global media/films/tv/culture on these fantasy worlds set in New York and help people build fantasy imagines of nice lives by setting them in LCOL areas.

Take the pressure off the big cities, share the wealth, the opportunities, and everyone will be better off for it.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#959

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this not a defacto transfer of wealth from renters to owners? Rental supply will go down due to reduced profits, and therefore ultimately rental prices as a whole will go up once a new equilibrium with fewer rentals is reached. These sorts of suggestions generally seem hugely biased towards buyers at the expense of everyone else.

Marginally higher and higher property taxes for non primary residences would deal with that.

I don't follow. If you make holding an investment property more expensive than owning, than fewer people will own investment properties, reducing supply and increasing rental prices.

Yes, the investor makes less, but the expected result is less supply so rents are higher, not the same supply but with strictly lower rents.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#960
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portugal had a golden visa program that granted citzenship if you bought real state of at least 500k EUR. That drove home prices up signficantly in Lisbon, specailly units in that price range. Under new law, the Portuguese Golden Visa no longer provides Residency status through Real Estate investments. [1] https://www.portugalhomes.com/golden-visa-portugal

The golden visas were issued in relatively small numbers, I doubt they affect price much vs all the short term rentals like Airbnb combined with explosive popularity of Portugal.

The number of golden visas may be relatively small to affect prices on themselves (around 20.000 for Portugal in the last ~10y [1]). But I would bet that there is a connection between golden visas and the rise in the numbers of AirBnB properties.

The golden visa is just a fast and convenient way to get a foothold in the country and do further investments. And what would these investments be? Probably AirBnBs...

This is supported by data presented in [1]: >90% of golden visa holders acquired it via real estate investments. Now, would anyone pour their life's savings in a single property investment in a far away land? I would say no. So these golden visa holders are probably very well-off and they will continue "investing" in real estate, and expecting returns on their investment. Which translates to more AirBnBs.

[1] https://getgoldenvisa.com/portugal-golden-visa-statistics#ft...

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