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Apollo will close down on June 30th

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Re: Apollo will close down on June 30th

#951

Post by nicce »

DangitBobby wrote: post #905
TechBro8615 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only do the receipts contradict the Reddit CEO, but even if they didn't, the Apollo dev is well within his rights to offer an ultimatum that either Reddit acquires his app, or he shuts it down. If he has enough leverage in that situation for Reddit to feel as if that's "blackmail," then it actually means that Reddit is the one blackmailing him with the pricing changes. On one hand they claim they need to increase…

It was the "go quiet" part, as in if they don't just buy him out he'll scream and cry to the public so they get really negative publicity on the API updates. To be clear, I don't think that's what he meant, but I think that's what the Reddit person thought was being said.

It was more about joking. Reddit claimed that Apollo made them lose money 20 million per year, so they had to add API prices.

Joke was to offer the app for half the price if the pricing was legitimate, and keep the users.

Re: Apollo will close down on June 30th

#952

Post by kats »

danpalmer wrote: post #119

Well done to Christian for remaining calm, professional, and engaging with this process in an honest way, standing up for his users, but not attacking Reddit or its staff with emotion, just stating facts and holding them to account in a considered way. He comes across as a mature individual and one that I'm sure many would want to deal with in business or hire as an engineer or leader. In a way, Reddit couldn't have…

[flagged]

Re: Apollo will close down on June 30th

#953

Post by Operyl »

kats wrote: post #952
danpalmer wrote: post #119

Well done to Christian for remaining calm, professional, and engaging with this process in an honest way, standing up for his users, but not attacking Reddit or its staff with emotion, just stating facts and holding them to account in a considered way. He comes across as a mature individual and one that I'm sure many would want to deal with in business or hire as an engineer or leader. In a way, Reddit couldn't have…

[flagged]

Read the post, listen to the audio of the actual context of that comment in the call. It wasn't blackmail, and was addressed in the submission. He also lives in a country that doesn't require all parties to consent to recording, and it wasn't until Reddit accused him of blackmail that he released his evidence.. Seems reasonable and level headed to me.

Re: Apollo will close down on June 30th

#954

Post by arrrg »

soraminazuki wrote: post #921
aniforprez wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure who was on the other end of the call He mentions that it was spez AKA Steve Huffman the CEO of reddit. The call really does sound amateurish and the joke/negotiation tactic/money request/??? was really unprofessional but Steve seems to have completely misconstrued the whole interaction and blown up at him. I would say this is worse of the CEO to use this to spread slander especially when he already apo…

That joke about the $10M wasn't unprofessional at all. If Steve was honest about the $20M per year opportunity cost, he would've instantly agreed to a one time $10M. Then Reddit would gain an additional $20M per year. But it was only a joke because Steve was lying about the $20M opportunity. Christian is acting in a surprisingly civil manner despite the repeated lies and smears made by Steve and others at Reddit. I s…

That makes no logical sense at all. Why go for $10m if there is no need to because you have already adjusted your own pricing upwards.

Also, what things are priced at is not what they cost …

Re: Apollo will close down on June 30th

#955

Post by cbzoiav »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #830
apozem wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My feelings exactly. We're all stuck with the official Reddit and Twitter clients now. They're not even good. We know they're not good, but they're now the only place to experience Reddit and Twitter. It's like enterprise software for a whole social network.

"We're" not stuck unless your career is in social media, in which case yes, they will still be the most popular sites and the best way to reach people. But for the rest of us, there's always a choice to foster a new community. Whether there is enough for that, and if a server is ready for that load, are big questions to answer though

If you work in social media, you can probably afford a subscription based enriched app that pays the API fees.

It's the normal users that suffer. Hopefully that suffering will hit Reddits usage/cash flows enough to make them u turn.

Re: Apollo will close down on June 30th

#956

Post by kats »

Operyl wrote: post #953
kats wrote: post #952

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Read the post, listen to the audio of the actual context of that comment in the call. It wasn't blackmail, and was addressed in the submission. He also lives in a country that doesn't require all parties to consent to recording, and it wasn't until Reddit accused him of blackmail that he released his evidence.. Seems reasonable and level headed to me.

I thought I did??? Honestly feels like we're talking about that dress that's blue&black or white&gold.

> He also lives in a country that doesn't require all parties to consent to recording

Ok it's not technically illegal it's just extremely unprofessional. If a business did that people would erupt.

He threatened them three times. Pay him 10 million dollars and he'll go away quietly, or else he'll send the reddit mob at them. Which is exactly what he just did when they didn't pay. He tried as hard as he could to do it. The actual audio with his tone of voice is way worse than the transcript. He told them 3 times just pay 10 million dollars and: "I could make it really easy on you", "we can both skip off into the sunset", "Bob's your uncle", "And have Apollo quiet down". Later he says Oh haha just kidding, I'm a "noisy API user".

Re: Apollo will close down on June 30th

#957

Post by Arkhaine_kupo »

bubblethink wrote: post #423
WestCoastJustin wrote: post #182

In this situation, do you hire someone to negotiate with or for you? I'm thinking the intention here was to sell the company for $10 million and that came across as a threat because of the language that was used. You would not record the call [1] and then publish it if you actually were blackmailing them for $10 million. I'm not faulting the guy here at all, I just think it comes down to lack of experience in dealing…

>it comes down to lack of experience in dealing with negotiations of this level Yeah, the conversation is so cringe. Why is he beating around the bush so much ? He wants to sell, shut down, or whatever for a $10M payout. It sounds easy to make that proposition. Instead, he uses terrible verbiage like, "go quiet, I'm joking, opportunity cost, Bob's your uncle, yada yada". Why is he so terrible at talking ? Nothing in…

> Why is he beating around the bush so much ?

He is asking for clarification, something you do when you have a good business relationship with someone.

> He wants to sell, shut down, or whatever for a $10M payout.

He doesn't. He is saying that 20$M is clearly overpriced and that if it was true then reddit would come up with a ludricous number like 10M to make that API be turned off. He just uses quiet because reddit described the API use as Loud.

It's not an offer, it's calling someone's bluff out.

Think in poker someone says "my hand is worth 20 million" and you got pretty good cards you would tell them "go all in because I am gonna keep covering whatever you raise" and then they do not go All In, you got a pretty good case to think their initial comment was not true.

Re: Apollo will close down on June 30th

#958

Post by Normal_gaussian »

the_gipsy wrote: post #941
WestCoastJustin wrote: post #182

In this situation, do you hire someone to negotiate with or for you? I'm thinking the intention here was to sell the company for $10 million and that came across as a threat because of the language that was used. You would not record the call [1] and then publish it if you actually were blackmailing them for $10 million. I'm not faulting the guy here at all, I just think it comes down to lack of experience in dealing…

Bad negotiation because the other end owns the platform, has all the leverage. Apollo simply cannot stand up and leave the table, which is what reddit predictably did. Let that be the lesson: don't sink your time (and money) into building OSS (or a business) on top of a platform. It's like building on sand.

If you have a quick and high return, it can be very much worth it.

The business plan and your personal savings should reflect that it can (and will) disappear in an instant.

Re: Apollo will close down on June 30th

#960

Post by whatarethembits »

couchdb_ouchdb wrote: post #868

"I quickly put together a small app where I could input the prices and it would output monthly/yearly cost, cost for free users, paid users, etc. so I'd be able to process the information immediately." Someone should tell this dude about Excel.

Assuming his goal was to be ready with results of his calculations in real time while on a call, which may happen while you’re away from your computer, it makes sense I think. Excel is great, but on phone while away from your computer? Not so sure.
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