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Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

ottawacitizen.com

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Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#951

None of this is a surprise to anyone who has been watching. I could characterize it in a number of ways, but there is nobody left to persuade. Given some obvious inevatabilities that flow downstream of this, what's the smart thing to do as an individual? If you are aligned to the official narrative, the incentives are to double down to make sure nobody suspects you of disloyalty if it prevails. If you are on the side…

>None of this is a surprise to anyone who has been watching. I could characterize it in a number of ways, but there is nobody left to persuade.

Not even a planck length of surprise to anyone.

>Given some obvious inevatabilities that flow downstream of this, what's the smart thing to do as an individual?

What a great question. Staying neutral? Join the protests on some side? At least try to understand what's happening?

>If you are aligned to the official narrative, the incentives are to double down to make sure nobody suspects you of disloyalty if it prevails.

I think when folks like Bill Maher call Trudeau out as sounding like Hitler... that was before he declared this last night. Even those on the left are seeing this as way too far. Something the convoy seems to have done is show how detached from reality Trudeau has become. He used to be a guy who would stand up in town halls and talk to anyone.

>f you are on the side of revolt, the official narrative is so increasingly divorced from reality as a means to signal it doesn't have to care about it - because this is how it says it is powerful - that it is impossible to sustain the dissonance to find any common ground or agreement in principle.

The mandates are falling around the world. Trudeau introduced new restrictions in January sparking this protest. It's clearly the wrong direction. The 'covid conspiracy theory' that this isn't about health. There hasnt been an emergency in quite some time. Trudeau's hand got laid down last night. This is no longer a conspiracy theory.

>I just don't see reconciliation as a result of this emergencies act process.

The Ottawa police have been unable to end the protests because they are legal peaceful protests. This emergencies act explicitly says you cant remove their internationally recognized human rights. Trudeau will find out shortly that the protesters are still not going anywhere, but worse force his hand. I will be quite surprised if the military doesnt get involved.

>My bets would be on a ratcheting up of controls over internet services, hyper aggressive financial services and tax enforcement, over the top surveillance exampples as threats, a miasma of staged and real "random" violence, escalating hit jobs and cancellations of the reasonable and principled, an official pivot to "fighting hate/terror" as a permanent emergency, etc.

No crystal ball needed to make these predictions. That's going to happen for sure.

>The only question to me is whether a new class of plausible leaders emerges to replace the terrible ones responsible for this nonsense, or decades of low level conflict with a radicalized populace vs. a state that has more international support than national legitimacy. The only out is removing internal passport controls and mandates. The alterative is clear. Such interesting times.

I have such respect for Liberal MP Joel Lightbound. A week ago he came out and said exactly this. Talk to the protesters, give them a reasonable roadmap to no restrictions. Stop the inflammatory attacks.

Nobody is saying you must drop the mandates tomorrow. But the reason Trudeau has gone this far is because there is no roadmap to no restrictions. Restrictions are staying. The protesters forced hishand and revealed this reality.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#952
post #886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh - they’re being asked to take jabs, wear masks, and be tested. It’s not that deep - we are in a public health crisis. I guess the next set of “protests” will be for people’s freedom to use carbon, against the tyranny of renewable energy. :-/

you say that blithely but it very well might be, as people are asked to forgo their own prosperity and quality of life to maybe help prevent problems that are very far removed from a common person's daily wants and needs

>prevent problems that are very far removed from a common person's daily wants and needs

Right this second on the daily timescale. Tick tock.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#953

Why are so many Americans obsessed about Canadian politics all of a sudden? The comments here are mostly non-Canadian, and are not representative of the current general sentiment in Canada. While invocation of the Emergencies Act is always concerning, it's pretty clearly warranted here. There's always chance for abuse, but Trudeau's minority government is on thin ice and if they cross any lines they're as good as gon…

>Why are so many Americans obsessed about Canadian politics all of a sudden? The comments here are mostly non-Canadian, and are not representative of the current general sentiment in Canada.

Canadian here. Americans are concerned about Canadian democracy falling. 43 out of 50 states have no mandates; the remaining 7 are clear political lines. Many other countries in the world never had restrictions. Many who did have also dropped them. It's unreasonable for a high vaccinated country to remain so restricted. The smearing of these protests has been extreme to the point that the world is commenting how bad it is in Canada.

>While invocation of the Emergencies Act is always concerning, it's pretty clearly warranted here. There's always chance for abuse, but Trudeau's minority government is on thin ice and if they cross any lines they're as good as gone.

It's absolutely not warranted but also completely invalid. You cant use the act to shutdown peaceful protests. Several premiers who should have been consulted as per requirements of the act are publicly opposing this.

>I can only imagine the chaos that would unfold if this was happening in Washington, D.C., but it's not. I know some outraged Canadians who support the protests/blockades, but most of them are either extreme right wing (a comically small population compared to USA) or heavily biased through being directly impacted by restrictions (like the travel industry).

That's quite the characterization. Absolutely not accurate compared to my understanding.

>The vast majority of my friends, family, colleagues, strangers on the street, business owners I interact with, lawyers, CEOs, investors, healthcare workers, waiters, bartenders, bus drivers, teachers... are all in strong support of putting an end to the disruption, and in favour of vaccine passports, mask mandates, gathering restrictions, etc. to protect public health.

Of your friends.

https://twitter.com/AngusReid/status/1488044322192695297

In reality polls show somewhere between 50% and 75% of Canadians support the protests and think restrictions must end. you know... like the rest of the world is doing.

>Compared to the USA, Canadians care much more about what's best for the collective whole than about personal freedoms. This is simply a case of a small minority causing problems for the majority, amplified by the fact that the USA leans towards supporting the protestors.

You seem to be living in a political bubble. Out of curiosity, do you believe Trudeau when he says the protesters are 'fringe minority of racists, sexists, and white supremacists?'

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#954

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Occupy Wall Street did not do a lot of shutdowns, they quickly migrated marches to sidewalks and sit downs to public spaces to the consternation of nypd. The reason they fizzled is they had absolutely zero marketing experience. When they finally got down to listing their demands, it was a 43 point manifesto from save the penquins to truther investigations. BLM really didn’t get anywhere (they initially had a ~14 poin…

The reason Occupy failed is not because of marketing, it's because they were not organized to face the raw powers of the State protecting Wall Street moguls. By peacefully demonstrating on sidewalks, you're not having any meaningful impact and you're not being heard. Someone in this thread mentioned "civil disobedience" movements. Studying the history of such movements (anti-apartheid politics, workers movements, wom…

This is revisionist. They could not sustain a united front, it quickly deteriorated and was diffused with people supporting various agendas. It was important for the message to reach people in order to ramp up support and for the movement to sustain itself, that was a colossal failure.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#955

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet this is exactly what was being done to these truckers prior to their actions.

Govt literally banned 1) commerce 2) restricted citizens access through borders Europe is opening up. I guess Science different in Canada.

Canada was already on track to open up. It follows Europe. People are already quipping about protestors wanting to take credit by likening it to protesting the darkness at midnight and claiming victory at 6 am.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#956
post #39

I’m not in Ottowa and I feel like I’m not sure what to believe here. On one hand, if the protests really were peaceful, I do not believe the government should shut them down. On the other hand, I’ve heard the protests have caused millions in trade to be shut down which I would not consider a peaceful act. If some non-citizen entity shut down millions in trade, I don’t think it would be viewed as peaceful. Should the…

>On one hand, if the protests really were peaceful, I do not believe the government should shut them down.

Our charter right is peaceful assembly. If the protests were not peaceful, the police would be right to shut them down. The reason the Ottawa police cannot do anything for weeks is because they are peaceful.

>On the other hand, I’ve heard the protests have caused millions in trade to be shut down which I would not consider a peaceful act.

That would be an incorrect characterization. The bridge blockade did not touch the tunnel. https://www.post-gazette.com/news/nation/2022/02/12/Detroit-...

Furthermore, a blockade that isn't violent... isn't violence.

>If some non-citizen entity shut down millions in trade, I don’t think it would be viewed as peaceful.

Yes Trudeau has alleged that these blockades/occupations/sieges are in fact the US government. Even using the name occupation is a international definition. Military occupations would certainly justify the measures being taken by the Canadian governments.

I even agree, if the USA has a military occupation over Canada. Trudeau is right to do what he has done.

That's not what is happening. Trudeau is looking to squash peaceful political protests and the propaganda of calling the protesters racists and white supremacists is insane.

>Should the right to peaceful protest include the right to halt trade at this scale? Are the reports of halted trade overblown?

If the protests 'are at this scale' absolutely. Though yes, clearly the detroit tunnel was open. They even had 1 lane open for the bridge. It's completely overblown.

The correct action for the governments to do when protesters are blockading isn't to send in the guns and tear them down. It's to open conversation with the peaceful protesters. Liberal MP Joel Lightbound is a smart man. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberal-mp-politicization-p...

the protesters just need a roadmap to no restrictions and human rights being returned.

Trudeau has taken this action because there is no roadmap. He wishes to keep the totalitarian state.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#957

None of this is a surprise to anyone who has been watching. I could characterize it in a number of ways, but there is nobody left to persuade. Given some obvious inevatabilities that flow downstream of this, what's the smart thing to do as an individual? If you are aligned to the official narrative, the incentives are to double down to make sure nobody suspects you of disloyalty if it prevails. If you are on the side…

>None of this is a surprise to anyone who has been watching. I could characterize it in a number of ways, but there is nobody left to persuade. Not even a planck length of surprise to anyone. >Given some obvious inevatabilities that flow downstream of this, what's the smart thing to do as an individual? What a great question. Staying neutral? Join the protests on some side? At least try to understand what's happening…

I don't think your assessment reflects the current attitudes in Canada. With such a polarizing topic, it's easy to fall into a bubble. I think this is true (and fairly normal) for any political in-group--we tend to overestimate our public support.

In this case, though, it's really just not there.

> Even those on the left are seeing this as way too far.

Generally, people are [sympathetic](https://globalnews.ca/news/8610727/ipsos-poll-trucker-convoy...) to the occupiers, but I wouldn't read too much into that--I'm in the large minority that have "sympathy" for them, but I want them gone as soon as possible.

Canadians say their opinion is unchanged, or that they're more likely to support vaccine mandates because of the occupations and blockades. A small majority want mass arrests and criminal charges, and significant majority want it to be ended by force. [source](https://angusreid.org/trudeau-convoy-trucker-protest-vaccine...).

Indeed, rather than this being "way too far," for most Canadians, it's not far enough.

> The Ottawa police have been unable to end the protests because they are legal peaceful protests.

The occupation is in violation of several court injunctions, which makes it illegal. As for peaceful? I'd disagree--there's been too many incidents of violence for me to characterize it that way, but frankly that's secondary when you're in systematic violation of court orders (without even considering all of the civil violations like parking, noise, public defecation, etc.)

> the reason Trudeau has gone this far is because there is no roadmap to no restrictions. Restrictions are staying. The protesters forced hishand and revealed this reality.

Every single province had a pre-existing deconfinement plan. They've been accelerated as the hospital situation continues to improve.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#958

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a YouTube channel that has been doing extended livestreams from the ground with both protestors and counter-protestors: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzGiDDKdphJ0GFvEd82WfYQ/vid... As I wrote elsewhere in this thread [1], I recommend taking a look at this channel or other extended livestreams to get a view from the ground if your impression of this event has been mostly shaped by articles. That recommendat…

You should be upfront about his political bias (which is in his best interest as it is his source of revenue). Don't get me wrong I like his videos but I also like hearing from the other side for good measure. Perhaps it is pedantic to point out that everyone has a political leaning but I think it is good to be upfront so that people can consider the biases of the input in order to make a more informed opinion. Or pe…

I’m fine with that so long as we caveat all sources the same way. “Liberal news outlet the New York Times said, …”

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#959
post #24

Headline on the front page of BBC News right now: "Trudeau vows to freeze anti-mandate protesters' bank accounts" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60383385 This feels downright dystopian, especially if the move away from cash and towards centrally-controlled electronic payment systems is anywhere near as widespread in Canada as elsewhere.

Do you think it's okay to weaponize the financial system against "actual" terrorists, but you think these "protesters" aren't that serious?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#960
post #24

Headline on the front page of BBC News right now: "Trudeau vows to freeze anti-mandate protesters' bank accounts" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60383385 This feels downright dystopian, especially if the move away from cash and towards centrally-controlled electronic payment systems is anywhere near as widespread in Canada as elsewhere.

Here is a YouTube channel that has been doing extended livestreams from the ground with both protestors and counter-protestors: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzGiDDKdphJ0GFvEd82WfYQ/vid... As I wrote elsewhere in this thread [1], I recommend taking a look at this channel or other extended livestreams to get a view from the ground if your impression of this event has been mostly shaped by articles. That recommendat…

Did this Youtuber report the arsenal of weapons seized from "peaceful protesters"?

If not, then maybe not the most unbiased source of information.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-protest-blocka...

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